The Evil Superman Discussion Thread

[Soubhagya]

I am very sick of this trope. The only reason i didn't want a Snyder Cut was because i was pretty sure there would be a lot of that in the final film. I find it so distasteful that i would settle for a corny and below par Justice League in order to avoid that. Snyder cut wouldn't be that good anyway considering my previous mixed experience. And evil Superman is the worst. I wasn't against Snyder's fans. But i had zero interest in any such cut.

The final film had a lot of that. But it was pretty well done imo. The only things that bothered me in the Snyder cut were those Knightmare teases. As much as i enjoyed the Snyder cut, i am very glad this ain't happening. (Unless, some bigwigs in WB run out of ideas after 5 years and try it anyway). Is this the limit of people's imagination when it comes to Superman? Origin. Death. Evil. I can understand making Superman on the big screen is comparatively difficult. But this is ridiculous. Either you make Superman. Or you don't. Don't make him a freaking villain. Is there a shortage of villains to adapt? Its not like you can have parallel films running with different Supermen. I have zero interest in Injustice. But Superman, Actions comics, etc. are going on at the same time.


One of the reasons is because i find the idea of an evil Superman, so unbelievable and ridiculous. I don't buy these ideas like one bad day for Superman. Especially, if he is doing this gig for years. The things we do, and the actions we perform leave impressions on our minds. On consciousness. Or mental space. As someone keeps doing something repeatedly over and over, the impressions become deeper and deeper. Then one's thinking naturally gravitates towards the repeating patterns of behavior and thinking.

The most ready example of that is probably addictions. Anyone who has experienced something of that sort, can see how difficult it is to get out of one's set patterns of thoughts and actions. So, i am supposed to buy the idea that Superman goes bad after a very unfortunate incident, and never even tries to come back to the right path. Something he was doing day and night for years. No hesitation in doing things which someone like the Joker can do. Obviously, he's not insane. He has some idea of right and wrong after the said incident. And he straight away goes down the wrong path with almost no hesitation at all. It makes zero sense. Except when he has lost his marbles.


The other idea is of mind control of some sort. Which is an okay idea. You can say he isn't doing this on his own. But then such a character is boring, as he has no free agent. He's like some sort of toy in hands of some bad guy. I think i have stopped enjoying playing with toys since childhood. This idea seems no different.


And finally there's the guy who is corrupted. I can sense some appeal here. He's Superman. He's using his awesome powers to save the day, like every other Superman does. But what if he gradually comes to think that saving the day isn't enough? As people will eff it up the very next day. To ensure that he never has to save the day again, what if he takes control of the day itself. Its understandable. Like Tony Stark making Ultron. This went south. But it came from a right place. Someone whose heart is good, but the plan need not be.

That's why the only evil Superman i like is 'Red Son'. Superman isn't just some guy from another planet, who grew up here and has the best set of superpowers. He's also like the exception to the idea that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Maybe the reason is the upbringing. Or he was born this way on Krypton. Whatever be the reason(s), he's fundamentally a good guy. Maybe the best guy. The evil is another manifestation of his desire to do good. Which seems to me as the only interesting idea to explore when it comes to evil Superman.

Now, i am not familiar with stories like Irredeemable. Or stories of that sort. I am not interested in them. And i am particularly disinterested when its for Superman. It often sounds like some stunt to use an icon to tell your terrible stories, because its more likely to sell.

[manwhohaseverything]

Hahahaha. Still don't understand why Manwhohaseverything wants this version of Superman. I agree that Superman needs to actually make an effort to change the world, but this isn't it.

Which version are we talking about?black Adam?hell yeah! I want a superman that's like those trailers.
"Truth, justice and blackAdam way"

A superman willing to do this and regardless of any damn consequences.

[The Overlord]

What do you guys think of Omni-Man from Invincible?

[Yoda]

What do you guys think of Omni-Man from Invincible?

Comics Omniman or Amazon Omniman? Comics doesn't really fit the trope beyond the beginning of Invincible. They seem to have made him a little more outright evil in the show. Though that may just be an effect of the way they are telling the story.

[Mistah K88]

I've noticed that they used this trope 4 TIMES in the DCAU

Superman the Animated Series: Alternate Universe that teamed with Luthor and Brainwashing by the Apokolips crew
Batman Beyond: Superman being controlled by Starro
Justice League: Alternate Universe Justice Lord Superman

Listen it's annoying enough when its a bunch of different sources coming up with this trope...but to have it happen 4 times in the same continuity?

[prepmaster]

"Truth, justice and blackAdam way"

"Truth, justice and the Injustice Superman way"

Being reckless does not equal to being a political strongman.

Anyway cant wait for the inevitable Injustice 3 to see how Supes would be handled in that game.

Superman - alien, Wonder Woman - demigoddess, Aquaman - Atlantean,

vs

Batman - human, Green Lantern - human, Flash - metahuman.

[Robanker]

What do you guys think of Omni-Man from Invincible?

The most compelling evil Supermen are usually not actually Superman. Your Homelanders, Plutonians and Omni-Men, as it were.

[marhawkman]

The most compelling evil Supermen are usually not actually Superman. Your Homelanders, Plutonians and Omni-Men, as it were.

Son of Jor-El! Kneel before Zod!

Or that guy

Sure he's a bit campy at times, but Val-Zod... has motives and isn't just some random nutso. But as an "Evil Superman" he's GREAT because he's a super-being from a distant planet who wants to enslave the entire Human race! Superman just wants to help people live better lives. General Zod? KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

[Robanker]

Son of Jor-El! Kneel before Zod!

Or that guy

Sure he's a bit campy at times, but Val-Zod... has motives and isn't just some random nutso. But as an "Evil Superman" he's GREAT because he's a super-being from a distant planet who wants to enslave the entire Human race! Superman just wants to help people live better lives. General Zod? KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

See I think Zod (when he's not Stamp) is kind of dull for that reason. He's just Extremist Superman. All the best ties to Clark's dead past are better addressed when Supergirl arrives. All the fights are more interesting when you replace Zod with Bizarro. He just doesn't do it for me beyond being a good excuse to have Superman fight an evil Kryptonian, but it gets ruined by all the writers who use Zod as a way to have Clark double down on "Earth good, Krypton bad!"

[Frontier]

See I think Zod (when he's not Stamp) is kind of dull for that reason. He's just Extremist Superman. All the best ties to Clark's dead past are better addressed when Supergirl arrives. All the fights are more interesting when you replace Zod with Bizarro. He just doesn't do it for me beyond being a good excuse to have Superman fight an evil Kryptonian, but it gets ruined by all the writers who use Zod as a way to have Clark double down on "Earth good, Krypton bad!"

Personally I feel like Extremist Superman can be pretty effective in terms of contrast because we have someone so dedicated to their ideals like Clark is but they're pretty awful in practice, and he represents a dark side of the culture Clark can never fully be a part of even when he wants to be.

And then you have another contrast with Kara who basically remembers and represents the positive nature of Krypton and what the planet was capable of and that's why she can jive more with Clark than, say, anyone from the Phantom Zone.

[OopsIdiditagain]

My Favorite Evil Superman is from "Super Friends" .

Attachment 107769

If Superman was in the band Kiss:

[OopsIdiditagain]

What do you guys think of Omni-Man from Invincible?

He's very manipulative and intimidating.

[Gaius]

"Truth, justice and the Injustice Superman way"

Being reckless does not equal to being a political strongman.

Anyway cant wait for the inevitable Injustice 3 to see how Supes would be handled in that game.

Superman - alien, Wonder Woman - demigoddess, Aquaman - Atlantean,

vs

Batman - human, Green Lantern - human, Flash - metahuman.

Well, if it's anything like the previous Injustice games I imagine it will involve a Superman and other characters with powers actually dealing with and solving the main problem that he'll take credit for as is expected of a one-percenter because despite the game developers fanboyism, Bruce is an otherwise incompetent baboon in that franchise.

[Robanker]

Personally I feel like Extremist Superman can be pretty effective in terms of contrast because we have someone so dedicated to their ideals like Clark is but they're pretty awful in practice, and he represents a dark side of the culture Clark can never fully be a part of even when he wants to be.

And then you have another contrast with Kara who basically remembers and represents the positive nature of Krypton and what the planet was capable of and that's why she can jive more with Clark than, say, anyone from the Phantom Zone.

The thing is Krypton exploding (and Clark learning from Jor-El that it was due to corruption and ignoring science) pretty much establishes the awful qualities of Krypton. Zod works, but he generally doesn't do anything for me that others don't already do better. We're getting off topic so I'll say I get why others like Zod, but he doesn't really do it for me nor does he really satisfy the "evil Superman" approach. I thought STAS did a good job, as did JLU.

[manwhohaseverything]

"Truth, justice and the Injustice Superman way"

Being reckless does not equal to being a political strongman.

I don't care.If injustice superman was anywhere close to Black adam in those trailers.I would be all for it.The chains are off.There is a clear diffference in where they come from and what they are trying to do.If you don't see that,then that's cool.Injustice is standard evil superman.The wannabe messianic figure that get's torn apart in the face of a man and his existential struggle,free will..etc.More importantly just a jobber for batman and a way to pander to batman fans.
The fact is that if one tries beyond one’s capacity to be perfect, the shadow descends into hell and becomes the devil.
Also,being reckless may not equal being political strongman.But,it does mean you would jump in and act on instinct not be afraid of consequance when you need to act.Like the above punch a racist dictator with a gun.