All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Mister Mets]

So what? In both cases, since when has the Vice Presidential candidate really attracted votes or drove votes away? Hillary Clinton could have chosen Michelle Obama as her running mate and she still would have lost the Electoral College.

The main thing running mates could do is hurt the ticket.

And it would've been a worse race for Hillary if she had to defend a weird gaffe from Kaine.

Pence was a Governor. He also had time in Congress.

That doesn't change the fact that he isn't qualified to co-pilot a bumper car.

Same goes for Kaine.

Pence has a decent resume, and did a lot to help Trump with establishment Republicans.

The main objections to Pence would be over his social conservatism, which doesn't seem to apply to Kaine.

Who were the more qualified minority candidates Hillary could have chosen instead of Kaine?

[BeastieRunner]

Did you know that Zinke has his own personal secetorial flag foisted up the pole every time he enters the building?

Did not know we had Dukes in America!

[Malvolio]

You don't think that Michelle Obama would have had a better chance to get those votes than someone who...

- didn't even show up in Wisconsin during the general?
- barely showed up in Michigan?

If she were at the top of the ticket, yeah I could see it. But as Hillary's running mate? I don't think so.

[InformationGeek]

Paul Ryan can shove it where the sun don't shine.

Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said Thursday that Puerto Rico is facing a “humanitarian crisis” and argued that the federal government has a responsibility to provide personnel and aid to the hurricane-ravaged island territory.

But Ryan also appeared to defend controversial remarks by President Trump that federal resources cannot remain in Puerto Rico “forever,” saying the territory needs to get back "on its own two feet." The president did not make similar comments about two other regions that have been slammed by hurricanes, Houston and south Florida.

“Yes, we need to make sure that Puerto Rico can begin to stand on its own two feet,” Ryan told reporters at his weekly news conference. “They’ve already had tough fiscal problems to begin with. ... We’ve got to do more to help Puerto Rico rebuild its own economy so that it can be self-sufficient.”

Also, 69 Republicans are refusing to vote for aid for Puerto Rico, some of which are familiar like Louie Gohmert, Mark Meadows, and Joe Barton.

[Mister Mets]

He's a white nationalist who has made Hitler salutes on social media. Is that now a permissible quality in your book that shouldn't also warrant criticism?

And ask yourself, why are you DEFENDING that?

I said the guy should have been fired.

The only time I was defending him was when I said he wasn't a Neonazi, and he's not. This was in response to a post in which you called me out about a news item I hadn't commented on yet.

We're getting into dangerous territory when the argument isn't about whether something is literally true. Trump lies a lot and the best argument is that it's not literally true, but that there may be something to the underlying sentiment. If the decision is made to engage political discussions on that level, it's probably going to help the reelection efforts of the guy who has been doing it comfortably for years.

I don't think anyone who actually cares enough about injustice to take a stand cares all that much about rhetorical 'accuracy' here, since, again, we are all fighting the same fight. A racist is most likely a mysogynist as well, and is also most likely a homophobe, and most likely votes Republican. So if I call Tony Perkins, for example, a 'racist', when he is more known for being a homophobe, I am still being accurate.

HOW? Because Tony Perkins is clearly an anti-Semite, aka, a racist. This is evident in his screeds against Islam, which clearly reference SPECIFICALLY Middle Eastern Muslim Fundamentalists as if they were the sum total of Muslim experience. News flash: the Majority of Islamic people are not of Middle Eastern descent. Many people of Middle Eastern descent who are NOT Muslim are assumed to be Muslim by Tony Perkins. People of Middle Eastern descent are Semitic, and 'anti-Semite' doesnt just refer to hating Jews (although an argument CAN be made that, as a Fundamentalist Christian who believes that the Jews must return to Israel in order for Jesus to return and wipe out all non-Fundamentalist Christians, Tony Perkins also hates the Jews, but...that is a whole other can of worms). Tony Perkins is afraid of Middle Eastern people, aka Semitic people, particularly - but not exclusively - Muslims. He is a racist, and a homophobe.

He also is a staunch opponent of women's rights to autonomy and access to health care, and openly espouses a 'Christian' doctrine that woman's place is as her husband's 'helpmeet'. This makes him a mysogynist/sexist as well, meaning that, if at some point, I call him a 'sexist' or 'mysogynist' (is there any actual air between the two terms?), instead of the more well known 'homophobe', I am not using the wrong phrasing.

I try to remember to just use 'bigot', though that carries less impact that the visceral reaction 'racist', 'homophobe', or 'mysogynist' carry. But hey, sometimes, in the heat of a thing, I forget to be polite about a perpetrator of injustice and just use one of the many accurate descriptors of the Republican base to describe one of its members or voters or leaders. You may not want to accept that the term applies to the subject, but 9 times out of 10, it does. On the occasion I am proven wrong, I will apologize, but I won't pretend that the one exception disproves the general rule of thumb.

Rhetorical accuracy matters because some of the reactions to problems will differ. A white parent may worry about their kid being gay, but won't worry about their kid turning black. Greater access to contraceptives will help erase the gender gap in terms of pay and opportunity, but will not solve homophobia.

In addition, when people who are on the fence regarding an issue realize that you're wrong about their motives or the people they know, they'll be less likely to join your side.

What I've sometimes observed is a conflation between views someone disagrees with and views they think no reasonable person can hold, when there should be space for views you disagree with but understand can be held by people you believe to be acting in good faith. This gets dangerous when any heresy is seen as proof of bigotry. So a disagreement with someone on an aspect of one issue (IE-race based affirmative action in the college application process, government solutions to gender wage gaps, the age of consent for gender reassignment surgery) first becomes a proxy for the larger issue, and then becomes evidence of bigotry. That can push away people who would otherwise be on your side, get people to avoid solutions to problems that touch controversial topics, or reduce your credibility when pushed into an extreme stance by a refusal to compromise.

If she were at the top of the ticket, yeah I could see it. But as Hillary's running mate? I don't think so.

That could very easily have backfired.

It makes the inexperience argument against Trump less effective when the bottom of the ticket is someone who hasn't served in office, run a business, or led a major military unit. If she had gotten the exact same results, we'd now look at it as a spectacular backfire.

And Michelle Obama doesn't seem interested in elected office.

[Scott Taylor]

It would be nice if modern cars were equipped with, oh, I don't know, maybe voice activated access to digital versions of car ownership and insurance paperwork. Something that you can do without rummaging in a glove compartment.

If a police officer needs to search a car after that, they might need a search warrant.

Pretty sure the cops run a plate and get everything they need to know. The rest is just blowing smoke and mind games. And hope that they'll catch you on something other than what they pulled you over for or they will find out what you are "really" up to in that car.

I liked the Chris Rock video about how to "not get your ass kicked by the police."

[worstblogever]

Things you can't make up... Trump decided to be interviewed by Sean Hannity tonight, predictably, getting to lie his ass off and get softball questions.

However, the where and what happened during it bears notice. The interview was held at an Air National Guard base. In the background, during the interview, a bugler began playing "Retreat", and on military bases specifically, during this song, everyone present is supposed to stand for the flag in a tradition that dates back to the Revolutionary War. Trump didn't stand, he sat there and joked that the bugle was really to "salute Hannity's ratings".

His "outrage" over NFL players kneeling during the anthem isn't just full of s***, the septic tank burst open on the subject.

[Tazirai]

Things you can't make up... Trump decided to be interviewed by Sean Hannity tonight, predictably, getting to lie his ass off and get softball questions.

However, the where and what happened during it bears notice. The interview was held at an Air National Guard base. In the background, during the interview, a bugler began playing "Retreat", and on military bases specifically, during this song, everyone present is supposed to stand for the flag in a tradition that dates back to the Revolutionary War. Trump didn't stand, he sat there and joked that the bugle was really to "salute Hannity's ratings".

His "outrage" over NFL players kneeling during the anthem isn't just full of s***, the septic tank burst open on the subject.

The outrage should really be read as ---

"LOOK! Nig.. Mr. Football Player. We don't care about your social justice issues. I don't give a shit if you get beat up by the police. Be proud of your country! Now go toss that ball, like a good lil boy!"

[Tazirai]

I interacted with someone one Twitter who responded to a related Tweet I posted on this topic. He(?) mentioned Jill Stein, I gave him a list of women would be better suited to give an opening speech at a woman's conference, including Elizabeth Warren, and he shot down pretty much all of them because they weren't 'Progressive enough'. Tamika's reasoning is still way off, it only makes sense if you say that this Conference isn't about Women but about people who supported Bernie Sanders.

I think what we need is a Real Woman's Conference. One that isn't about how Liberal or Conservative you are, but on issues affecting ALL women in the country. A conference that supports and boots women up, gives them role models in other women who are active in politics and social issues, who have achieved success in business and science, who have ideas on how to improve conditions for all women.

Agreed on many things you said.
However I've been to Men's conferences and there were women speakers and in attendance. Reason being is that Men don't exist in a vaccuum, and there were things we NEEDED to understand, that only a woman could tell us. I never understand why one gender or the other loves to exclude the other from EVERYTHING. We all contribute to society, and not in a vaccuum.

As a Black Male, the only thing I ask my allies, especially the white ones. Let the US decide how to protest, or seek the Justice we need, Please offer legal aid, or stand by us, but let the US take the forefront.
Dunno why Men and Women, can't do this.
Women can't always cry Mansplainer or Bros or dude-bro when a male says something she doesn't want to her.
Men can't always use the "I'm a male!" Card because they think their opinion is more valid.
I grew up around lots of women and learned to value most of their judgements. There are some women who I'll never value their trust or wisdom because they're stupid. Same with many men.

But as an Independent, If Elizabeth Warren was invited to speak at a Men's Conference. Please come and grace us with your wisdom.
If Ann Coulter wanted to come. I'd LEAD the fight for her removal.

Bernie has things to say of value, regardless of hat his haters try to "SAY" he did or "THINK" he did.

[TheInvisibleMan]

Here's Pence's legacy as governor of Indiana

he cut HIV and STI funding by near half

within 2 years, there was a 40 percent jump in STI cases in Indiana, severe enough for the feds to intervene

[TheInvisibleMan]

as a Black man

im done with allies, you want a cookie? go f**k off

let us do what we need to do, either help or shut up

[Tami]

Agreed on many things you said.
However I've been to Men's conferences and there were women speakers and in attendance. Reason being is that Men don't exist in a vaccuum, and there were things we NEEDED to understand, that only a woman could tell us. I never understand why one gender or the other loves to exclude the other from EVERYTHING. We all contribute to society, and not in a vaccuum.

As a Black Male, the only thing I ask my allies, especially the white ones. Let the US decide how to protest, or seek the Justice we need, Please offer legal aid, or stand by us, but let the US take the forefront.
Dunno why Men and Women, can't do this.
Women can't always cry Mansplainer or Bros or dude-bro when a male says something she doesn't want to her.
Men can't always use the "I'm a male!" Card because they think their opinion is more valid.
I grew up around lots of women and learned to value most of their judgements. There are some women who I'll never value their trust or wisdom because they're stupid. Same with many men.

But as an Independent, If Elizabeth Warren was invited to speak at a Men's Conference. Please come and grace us with your wisdom.
If Ann Coulter wanted to come. I'd LEAD the fight for her removal.

Bernie has things to say of value, regardless of hat his haters try to "SAY" he did or "THINK" he did.

The analogy between a Man's Convention and a Women's is not equal. Not as long as this country is still very much Patriarchal and women are often treated as 2nd class citizens.

Bernie has many opportunities to talk, he has since the election began in 2015. It might be time to give Women a chance to speak.

[4saken1]

Trump was the most well known candidate on the GOP stage by far and, arguably (only in Hillary's case), when compared to the Democrats. Coupling that with his image (not necessarily reality, mind you) as a legendary businessman, deal maker, and shoot-from-the-hip guy and it was silly for anybody not to think he didn't have a chance. 4saken1 is right in this way, however: if the primaries had used the Condorcet method of voting, Trump could possibly have not won.

Trump definitely would not have won if the Condorcet method was used. In the beginning, he wasn't the second or even third choice for most Republicans, yet he was winning delegates with 25-25% of the vote. With less candidates in the race, he wouldn't have gotten hardly any with percentages like those.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Things you can't make up... Trump decided to be interviewed by Sean Hannity tonight, predictably, getting to lie his ass off and get softball questions.

However, the where and what happened during it bears notice. The interview was held at an Air National Guard base. In the background, during the interview, a bugler began playing "Retreat", and on military bases specifically, during this song, everyone present is supposed to stand for the flag in a tradition that dates back to the Revolutionary War. Trump didn't stand, he sat there and joked that the bugle was really to "salute Hannity's ratings".

His "outrage" over NFL players kneeling during the anthem isn't just full of s***, the septic tank burst open on the subject.

Clearly, Dolt45 doesn't like it when those NFL plantation darkies refuse to toe the company line and obediently stand for the anthem. How dare those ungrateful bastards act that way!

[Kevinroc]

Trump will scrap critical Obamacare subsidy

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/1...subsidy-243736

President Donald Trump plans to cut off critical subsidy payments to insurers selling Obamacare coverage, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The decision to end the payments, estimated at $7 billion this year, marks Trump's most aggressive move yet to dismantle Obamacare after months of failed GOP repeal efforts on Capitol Hill. The move is likely to draw lawsuits and may put pressure on Congress to appropriate funding for the subsidies, which help insurers reduce out-of-pocket costs for low-income Obamacare customers.

The decision follows Trump's signing of an executive order earlier today that directs federal agencies to rewrite regulations to encourage the rise of a raft of cheap, loosely regulated health insurance plans that don't have to comply with certain Obamacare consumer protections and benefit rules. Trump touted the move as a step toward unwinding Obamacare.

Obamacare no longer exists. It's Trumpcare now. The GOP owns this crap.