Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

I've never thought of the fire as real fire, but just extreme TK, like the molecule manipulation.

Because why would she (or the psychic cosmic entity) have fire powers?

According to the Official Phoenix handbook, she is embued with cosmic fire. Why? Bc its the Phoenix Force and thats always been a representation of its energy. All the Phoenix hosts have access to cosmic fire to amplify their abilities

Well, Phoenix is a firebird... On the original run there was no fire at all, but after it there has been a lot of fiery effects and I feel like it's just silly if it's not actually fire but just Jean/the Phoenix wanting to look cool.

Nah there was fire in the original run. Cockrum didnt draw it but Byrne added it and its been fairly consistent since then

[johnnysv75]

All posts about Jean as Phoenix made me think about Sequoia Swennes’ wonderful story ”Risen”. An alternate take on Jean returning after having sacrificed herself on the moon. When I read it back in the 90s I always felt like ”Risen” would have been a better way to bring back Jean.

http://redshades.tripod.com/archive/sequoia_risen1.htm

It is in 19 parts and not completed. But what is there is very good, I think.

While I was looking for ”Risen” I found a short story I wrote way back in the late 90s, around the time when Steve Seagle wrote Uncanny X-Men and Jean started wearing the Phoenix costume again. I had completely forgotten this story.
It was my way of trying to make sense of Jean’s transformation from powerhouse in X-Factor to ”wallflower” in the X-Men Gold-team. It is a discussion between Xavier and Moira. I wrote it more than 20 years ago and English is not my first language. The language is very much ”fan fiction-English” - a bit overwritten and some ”big words” that are not used correctly and I use ellipsis (three dots) a lot! But some parts are ... decent.

http://www.alara.net/opeople/xbooks/morningcoffee.txt

[Peanutsinspace]

Interesting, thank you for sharing!

[MechaJeanix]

I guess I never really saw the Phoenix as literal flame or even cosmic flame but psychic flame (or psychic energy that appeared like flame). Rachel and Jean often used the cosmic flame of the Phoenix to move things as if it were telekinesis. I recall one writer in Excalibur having Rachel sometimes state she would use her telekinesis to jumpstart the phoenix force (whatever that means). The Phoenix can be confusing.

[Strong Girl Daken]

I love the idea of the Phoenix being the last remnant of the fire from the big bang.

[Phoenixx9]

According to the Official Phoenix handbook, she is embued with cosmic fire. Why? Bc its the Phoenix Force and thats always been a representation of its energy. All the Phoenix hosts have access to cosmic fire to amplify their abilities





Nah there was fire in the original run. Cockrum didnt draw it but Byrne added it and its been fairly consistent since then

Yes, the cosmic fire has always been shown with the Phoenix Jean.

The problem with those powers grids is that if I knew nothing of comics or Phoenix, I would not know that Jean as Phoenix was the most powerful psychic entity ever shown. Even for Jean, it just states that she is a powerful psychic, not an uber-powerful telepath and it does not mention that she is within the top 5 or 10 most powerful, etc. The wording is not exact enough. Telekinesis is worded as if it were possibly Omega Level, but we now know that is not the case.

Even the grids themselves are often incorrect. For example, Jean might have a durability of "2", but with her Telekinetic Force Bubble, it should be a "6". As Phoenix, it should be off the chart, not just a "7". In addition, all of Jean's Phoenix Powers should be OFF THE CHART, not just a "7". They could list them as "7", but add an "*" with wording stating "OFF THE CHART" or they would be an "11" with a numerical system, etc.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

All I'll say about "official handbooks" is that Jean's intelligence is actually a 3.67846, not a 3. 3 is way too low.

The Phoenix Force being actual fire is dumb.

[MechaJeanix]

I was never a fan of the official handbook bios because of the things others have already said. They weren't always exactly accurate. For Jean, I prefer the bio on Uncanny X-men.net. It is not perfect but it is pretty good. Several (maybe more than several) a few knowledgable posters here edited the Jean bio on Wikipedia and it was great - factual and cited a lot from the comics but over time so many others have edited it and changed so much (usually taking out a lot of her phoenix moments - which are in most of the other online bios like Uncanny X-men.net and others). I guess with retcons and Teen Jean, Jean Grey's history is a bit complex.

In the wiki a lot of the Morrison era became severely truncated too which sucked. Biographies of soap opera characters can be hard because there are so much content and you have to decide what to focus on if you want to keep it from being too long.

[starduck]

I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc

[MechaJeanix]

I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc

I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.

[starduck]

I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.

I think she could separate water molecules in Lego Marvel of all places

[Tank]

I do not believe Jean has shown that type of ability without the Phoenix. In the start of Morrison's run she was able to move around oxygen molecules and cause an explosion. This was before she starting showing any signs of flame. In X-men Red Jean moved a nano-sentinel device out of Storm's brain with her tk. So Jean has shown some forms of molecular level tk but nothing on the level that you are describing.

Teen Jean rebuilt her body from scratch. So adult Jean would know how to do this as well since she regained all the knowledge her teenage self had.

[MechaJeanix]

Teen Jean rebuilt her body from scratch. So adult Jean would know how to do this as well since she regained all the knowledge her teenage self had.

Good point. I blame temporary memory loss. Remind me how Jean rebuilding her body went down? Pink form or some other way?

[Havok83]

I think Phoenix being cosmic/psychic fire makes sense. It calls itself the mother of stars. Also can Jean herself without the Phoenix rearrange matter with tk? like turning a tree into gold, a burned asteroid into a futuristic black bird jet etc

LOL...in the original run, she as Phoenix literally ate a star to refuel her power so yeah the cosmic fire makes sense

Jean in Claremonyt's Revolution run used Cable's TK to rearrange the molecules of their outfits to change into costumes so yeah I would say its a skill she has

[nightw1ng]

Considering Jean is able to absorb the knowledge of others and she also has perfect memory, she could easily become a master of almost anything (martial arts, medicine, computer science, physics, etc.). Of course, that would already make a super powerful character even more over-powered, so I can see why they've only brought up this application of her telepathy a handful of times and why they rated her Intelligence as only average.