New Dan Jurgens Interview About Action Comics, Rebirth, and SuperDad

[manduck37]

I thought at least the Darkseid invasion was addressed in Lois and Clark. Didn't Superdad state that he was battling parademons and then on his way to stop Darkseid when Nuperman showed up and handled it? He saw the Superman of this new world step up and take on Darkseid, so he stuck with the parademons and helping where he could. If Nuperman fell, he would have stepped in directly to face Darkseid. Now as for Forever Evil and Doomed, neither of those were addressed. Which still bothers me. I don't think any of this was a well thought out as we would have liked. Though I really don't have a problem reading about Superdad again. I like the guy. I also like Nuperman and hope he comes back too. Since there are a lot of parallels to Reign of the Supermen going on, I wonder what will happen to all these "Supermen". Especially since all the Supermen from Reign stuck around after Superman returned. I'm curious to see if that happens again.

[DieHard200904]

I thought at least the Darkseid invasion was addressed in Lois and Clark. Didn't Superdad state that he was battling parademons and then on his way to stop Darkseid when Nuperman showed up and handled it? He saw the Superman of this new world step up and take on Darkseid, so he stuck with the parademons and helping where he could. If Nuperman fell, he would have stepped in directly to face Darkseid. Now as for Forever Evil and Doomed, neither of those were addressed. Which still bothers me. I don't think any of this was a well thought out as we would have liked. Though I really don't have a problem reading about Superdad again. I like the guy. I also like Nuperman and hope he comes back too. Since there are a lot of parallels to Reign of the Supermen going on, I wonder what will happen to all these "Supermen". Especially since all the Supermen from Reign stuck around after Superman returned. I'm curious to see if that happens again.

Most likely spinoff characters, AFAIK, which is good for DC if they have spinoff characters to sell.

P52 met a few Parademons and showed up a little late to see the Justice League win. Went back home after that, which kind of didn't inspire me much about him. It really did look like a rush job, TBH.

I get the feeling that maybe Kenan might be a new spinoff character, I say this because Jon would pretty much be another Superboy, and well P52 would be, to the best of my words, a sort of Elseworlds Superman, living out in the suburbs areas somewhere else (Lancaster, California?) and living the non-canon life, because AFAIK, that's a possible evolution for an aging character as opposed to the status quo where he lived in Metropolis as a reporter (with those unemployment times, of course) But if he wasn't the canon guy, he wouldn't be bound by any status quo issues. Having two sounds like the best way to me, anyways, given what DC has done up to this point, because it would probably be a good selling strategy for the line when you get two characters with some differences, and I would be surprised if some people wouldn't buy both. I think two Earth's is the best way, TBH.

[andersonh1]

I've never liked New 52 Superman. Never liked the armor, the distance from the classic Daily Planet setup, the lack of relationship with Lois, the constant angry red eyes, the relationship with Wonder Woman, the jerk attitude he has.... he's always felt forced and fake. He was so far removed from my perception of Superman that during Trinity War, when Pandora brought him the box to open because she thought he was the purest hero, my first thought was "Why would she think that? There's no evidence."

I don't see what merging the two Supermen would do either. You're still not keeping New 52 Superman that way. It would still be a different character.

At the end of the day, bringing back post-Crisis Superman is just correcting a bad detour that DC took with the character five years ago. Resets don't work any more. DC has done what they should have done in 2011: they've taken Superman and Lois and moved their story forward. They've got years of marriage under their belt, they have a son, and they have new challenges and have to take a different approach to life because of Jonathan. It's character development rather than reset, and it's good to see DC getting back to that type of storytelling.

[Sacred Knight]

The problem is they're doing it in the wrong place. The family doesn't belong in this world, period. If you're keeping this Earth, then you keep this Superman. You do not replace him with a copy. Maybe you can get away with this with more minor and/or legacy characters. You don't get away with this amateur "fix" for a Superman. If they want to keep Superman Blue around, fine; but he is not the true Superman of this particular Earth nor will he ever be. This worlds version, the New 52 Superman, must return sooner than later or they're all complete morons. That's not good storytelling. That's muddled, overly-complicated rubbish. And while the storyline is a bad idea either way, in my opinion, I'm confident that's exactly what's going to happen. New 52 Superman, or Superman Red as I deem him, will be back and take his place back. Probably for phase 2 of Rebirth.

We do agree though that merging is a bad idea. Superman Red needs to come back as he was and stay as he was.

[DieHard200904]

The problem is they're doing it in the wrong place. The family doesn't belong in this world, period. If you're keeping this Earth, then you keep this Superman. You do not replace him with a copy. Maybe you can get away with this with more minor and/or legacy characters. You don't get away with this amateur "fix" for a Superman. If they want to keep Superman Blue around, fine; but he is not the true Superman of this particular Earth nor will he ever be. This worlds version, the New 52 Superman, must return sooner than later or they're all complete morons. That's not good storytelling. That's muddled, overly-complicated rubbish. And while the storyline is a bad idea either way, in my opinion, I'm confident that's exactly what's going to happen. New 52 Superman, or Superman Red as I deem him, will be back and take his place back. Probably for phase 2 of Rebirth.

We do agree though that merging is a bad idea. Superman Red needs to come back as he was and stay as he was.

One way or another, someone is going to be offended by this move, as it pans out. I don't get why they have not bothered with an alternate universe yet.

[adrikito]

The problem is they're doing it in the wrong place. The family doesn't belong in this world, period. If you're keeping this Earth, then you keep this Superman. You do not replace him with a copy.

This must be for the guilt of the truth.. and they had this planned from the start .. I never mind this when I found out they were going to take part in rebirth.. until now..

They must launch the old version to:

-a world without Superman
-a world that all heroes fell and he recruit new heroes for that world ..

I was always in favor of he form a group of heroes and lead these.. I hope not try that in the Justice League..

I think the same. You can not get a copy and all fixed .. what's next? give it everything that had the superman of that world?

In addition ... New Earth continues to this as Superman (he change the past, his future never happened) .. Now New Earth and Prime Earth will have the same version of Superman It is a big mistake

[BeefBourguignon]

I've never liked New 52 Superman. Never liked the armor, the distance from the classic Daily Planet setup, the lack of relationship with Lois, the constant angry red eyes, the relationship with Wonder Woman, the jerk attitude he has.... he's always felt forced and fake. He was so far removed from my perception of Superman that during Trinity War, when Pandora brought him the box to open because she thought he was the purest hero, my first thought was "Why would she think that? There's no evidence."

I don't see what merging the two Supermen would do either. You're still not keeping New 52 Superman that way. It would still be a different character.

At the end of the day, bringing back post-Crisis Superman is just correcting a bad detour that DC took with the character five years ago. Resets don't work any more. DC has done what they should have done in 2011: they've taken Superman and Lois and moved their story forward. They've got years of marriage under their belt, they have a son, and they have new challenges and have to take a different approach to life because of Jonathan. It's character development rather than reset, and it's good to see DC getting back to that type of storytelling.

Good post, I agree.

[The Shredder]

At the end of the day, bringing back post-Crisis Superman is just correcting a bad detour that DC took with the character five years ago. Resets don't work any more. DC has done what they should have done in 2011: they've taken Superman and Lois and moved their story forward. They've got years of marriage under their belt, they have a son, and they have new challenges and have to take a different approach to life because of Jonathan. It's character development rather than reset, and it's good to see DC getting back to that type of storytelling.

A very astute analysis, and that's what REBIRTH feels like to me. A celebration of the character's history and legacy. Implementing it back into the lore, and going forward. Much like what Johns did with the Green Lantern books in 2004. Can lightning strike twice? In this case, with Superman? We'll see. It's crystal clear the Superman line has been in dire need of a steady hand and vision to keep the franchise from being just a hodgepodge of ideas thrown at the wall, praying something sticks. Just as it's quite evident that the sales are in desperate need of a bump. Hovering around 2010 sales because of readers lack of interest in Nuperman, or are holding on purely out of buying habit not even 5 years out from the 2011 reboot isn't the rosiest picture for DC Comics. Hopefully they'll succeed with this initiative.

At the very least, it seems like it's actually got people talking about the DC Comics' Superman again.

[manofsteel1979]

A very astute analysis, and that's what REBIRTH feels like to me. A celebration of the character's history and legacy. Implementing it back into the lore, and going forward. Much like what Johns did with the Green Lantern books in 2004. Can lightning strike twice? In this case, with Superman? We'll see. It's crystal clear the Superman line has been in dire need of a steady hand and vision to keep the franchise from being just a hodgepodge of ideas thrown at the wall, praying something sticks. Just as it's quite evident that the sales are in desperate need of a bump. Hovering around 2010 sales because of readers lack of interest in Nuperman, or are holding on purely out of buying habit not even 5 years out from the 2011 reboot isn't the rosiest picture for DC Comics. Hopefully they'll succeed with this initiative.

At the very least, it seems like it's actually got people talking about the DC Comics' Superman again.

I agree in principle, but I don't see how doing a cut and paste job with Superman can be long term and viable, unless they eventually retcon a ton of stuff. If you end up doing that you might as well have done a reboot.

[The Shredder]

I agree in principle, but I don't see how doing a cut and paste job with Superman can be long term and viable, unless they eventually retcon a ton of stuff. If you end up doing that you might as well have done a reboot.

You know, with DC having a knack for writing themselves into a box, which sincerely did not have to happen, I don't think they have a whole lot of options to be perfectly honest. The whole thing kinda reminds me of, again, GL Rebirth. I don't specifically recall what the reaction was for Hal Jordan returning to headline the main GL books, but I can't imagine it going over too well, if at all, with the Kyle Rayner fans who spent the better part of 10 years with Kyle as THEIR Green Lantern. As they probably felt the Green Lantern franchise should ideally be like that of the Flash where you had a successor (Wally/Kyle), who over time, was accepted as the rightful heir to the mantles of their predecessor's. Course they ran with it alot longer with Wally, than they did with Kyle, but I see a similar pattern, though of course not quite exact, going on here with REBIRTH.

[SuperCrab]

A very astute analysis, and that's what REBIRTH feels like to me. A celebration of the character's history and legacy. Implementing it back into the lore, and going forward.

I think there are ways to do that without cutting off the last five years and the fans of that Superman. Setting aside the "two Supermen" solution, which is the most obvious thing to do, another solution that could have happened, had we gone back to the beginning of the decision-making for Rebirth and were starting from that point in the comic book line instead of from where we are, would be this:

New52 Superman somehow gets the knowledge and experiences of the pre-Flashpoint Superman, through whatever method you want to say that might happen by. He's still new52 Superman, born in this universe. He's still the age new52 Superman is. He still has new52 Superman's personality. He's in total continuity with the last five years of stories and knows those events and has experienced them first-hand. However, he can also remember kind of "second hand", sometimes coming to him in flashes, in that scenario, the adventures of the previous Superman.

Maybe then gradually, new52 Superman's memories of certain things change him slightly (But not a complete or even half-way changeover into his predecessor). Like, he might have dropped the high collar and Kryptonian armor (Although, personally, I liked both a lot) and gone for a more traditional Superman look (Just without the trunks) costume wise. Maybe he sees a phone booth and smiles. Maybe he struggles with memories of being married to Lois and has trouble balancing what he knows is his own love for Diana with these memories of another him loving someone else he knows and works with as a friend and has occasionally thought of in a romantic way- kind of a love triangle.

I mean, there are ways to do this that aren't basically what DC Comics did- that don't essentially say "Screw the last 5 years and all those comics you bought. Don't count." and without establishing this Superman as an alien to this universe, where if they ever want to reestablish the typical Superman status quo, either he'll have to de-age or other characters will have to age, and their relationships with each other would have to be rewritten (Because SuperDad is dealing with the new52 Clark's cast, mostly, and like new52 Clark was barely older than Jim Olson, called him Jim, and thought of him as a friend, versus SuperDad, who was more of a mentor to the much younger "Jimmy" [and now even younger, relatively speaking, because this Superman is 10 years old than he ever was when we saw him prior to the new52, but Jim/Jimmy is as young as he ever was]).

This isn't really implementing legacy back into the lore. It's destroying the current lore in large measure and dumping in a huge foreign element.

Finally, and this is always, always worth noting: SuperDad is not the first Superman. The first Superman from 1938 was relegated to an alternate universe comic by the 70s or early 80s, and the place where his adventures happened were thought of as Earth 2 (Not the same Earth 2 in recent DC Comics). For a while, his adventures ran concurrently with the second Superman, a more modernized (for the time) version who grew out of the 60s or 70s and flew on into the 80s. Then there was Crisis on Infinite Earths in 1986, the original Superman was presumed dead, and the then-more modern Superman was sort of written over or fundamentally changed.

After Crisis on Infinite Earths, a year later in comic book time, we picked up with essentially the third Superman, who's adventures were chronicled from 1986-2011 albeit with several conflicting origin stories (Some people argue that that makes him several Supermen, but we'll just call him the third, for the sake of simplicity). That's SuperDad (We think- he might be a double from a very similar universe to that one).

Then, new52 Superman is the fourth Superman, and while some elements of the character were modernized for that reboot, he also was deliberate designed to reach back to some elements of the original 1938 Superman's story and character that the third Superman had never adopted.

So, when people say, "Oh, the traditional Superman is back, Superdad" or call him the real Superman or whatever, I would say that they don't know or are ignoring comic lore. He is the third Superman. That doesn't make him any more legitimate than the fourth, really. And it's the 4th Superman's universe that he grew up in, SuperDad really is not only not from Earth- he's not from this universe's Krypton, and he didn't grow up in this universe's Kansas, and has never met this universe's Superman cast (Prior to Wednesday).

The fourth Superman has a stronger claim to his own universe. Also, in some ways, he may have a stronger claim to tradition, because he more closely resembles the original Superman than the third Superman does in some respects. He's also a better character for the modern reader, and is of the correct age relative to the other characters, who he actually has histories with. SuperDad is like 20 years old than this universe's Superman, but when he pops in, that's not going to age the rest of the cast 20 years (Other than his Lois, who he brought with him, and is one of two Loises now hanging out on this Earth in this universe).

Bringing back the 3rd Superman as a corny family man who's a support character to his 10 year old superhero son (Who was not in the Pre-Flashpoint comics) is corny in the extreme, and something that will only appeal to legacy audiences from long ago. That'd be fine if it were in their own universe as their own book, but they are replacing the 4th Superman in his own universe and flipping off all the fans of that character. It's like they've completely given up on a strong Superman long-term for the future.

[The Shredder]

Despite some quite glaring partiality in all that text above, alot of which I'm not even going to waste my time in addressing cause I don't want to bog this down to what you or I 'personally' prefer, or what we think is the better character, cause you know, how is THAT going to get resolved?

But my thinking is that DC isn't necessarily going to do away with the last 5 years worth of continuity. Quite the contrary. Did DC just simply do away with 10 years of Green Lantern continuity when Hal returned for GL Rebirth? Nope. The same can be said here as well. I expect Nuperman to return at some point, cause it goes without saying, death of any kind is a complete joke these days, but if/when that actually transpires, the extent of his role will ultimately be the $60,000 dollar question.

Will Nuperman be up front and center once again? Or will he be scaled back in a Kyle Rayner-esque way? That most certainly remains to be seen. Staying the course of what we have been getting fed by DC with Superman for well over 5 years now (and yeah, I'm talking pre-new52 as well) certainly isn't giving the company any winning numbers, and with the way DC tends to write themselves into a creative box, I'm perfectly fine with Post-Crisis Superman returning with a family and giving that direction a shot. To say it's corny now that he is a family man, has about as much merit as it does saying Batman is cheesy all the sudden cause he's taken on the responsibility of being a actual father now, rather than a surrogant father that has been the case for decades.

Inclinations aside, I'm interested in how well DC can pull this new creative direction off. If it tanks hard, then DC could easily re-insert Nuperman back into the forefront, and go back to the regular New52 quo. That could be done quite easily.

If the Rebirth direction gains any sort of traction, then I have a difficult time believing DC will just hand over the reigns back to a Superman that's practically selling at figures prior to the 2011 relaunch. That would be like putting Kyle Rayner back in the forefront of the GL books in 2006, just a few years after GL Rebirth, because "Damn, we gotta make those 10 years Kyle anchored the books count! The hell with that old man, Jordan!" Yeah, right.

Anyways, I certainly understand the resentment some New52 fans have with this. I can't honestly say I was so upset to see Post-Crisis Superman go away in 2011 that I spent a abundant amount of time typing up my personal biases with the character, cause in actuality, I was fine, though not blown away, with what Morrison laid down with his Action Comics run with New52 Superman. Wasn't crazy about all the other stuff, and when I say other stuff I mean stories/editorial decisions/creative departures/ect, but the Morrison/Action run in beginning was solid atleast. What followed, atleast to me, was, ehh .... medicore.

[Sacred Knight]

I think the plan is definitely for New 52 Superman to be up front and center again when he returns. Which I think is concretely built-in to the Rebirth plans already. If anyone is scaled back it'd probably be Superdad but even that would be a ways down the road. I still think he'll have at least one solo title and a team title after the totality of this storyline is completed. At least initially there will be an effort to have things kinda evened out. But if time ends up seeing one scaled back, to me there's little question it'd be the older one who's the odd-man out of continuity as opposed to the proper version of the current setting. But again that's a way's away in the first place as the part of this storyline where he takes the reigns solo hasn't even begun yet.

Could things change if the first part of the story gains significant traction? It could. Plans could always change, for any variety of reasons. But I think the chances of it catching on to such a degree where they'd step back and say "woah, let's think about this here" is pretty close to nil. I don't see this whole completed saga marking much of a change in Superman's numbers, honestly. I'm a firm believer that the end result will be two Superman, thus more content, but I don't think it will result in substantial leaps in the numbers. At least nowhere close to what Superman once was.

[The Shredder]

I don't believe sales will go thru the roof at all. Hopefully I wasn't implying that when talking about the direction of the Superman REBIRTH titles. I do believe, however, that if the sales do gain traction, it will be in Post-Crisis Supes' favor rather than against him. I'm really not clear on how old Post-Crisis Supes is supposed to be these days, but having not read the recent Lois and Clark title, it's apparent that there's a process of sorts to make him appear more youthful, as I think he already looks younger in his Rebirth costume, than he ever did from any L&C covers that I've seen.

If DC decides to bring back Nuperman into the forefront to anchor the books, I'm OK with that. If it's determined to minimize him back to some extent in favor of Post-Crisis Superman, I'm OK with that too. However Rebirth plays out, I would prefer a much better and focused direction than what we've been getting over the past several years. DC has done Post-Crisis Superman and New52 Superman a disservice. The sale figures are mirroring that disservice.

It's high time that changes.

[vasir12]

I don't believe sales will go thru the roof at all. Hopefully I wasn't implying that when talking about the direction of the Superman REBIRTH titles. I do believe, however, that if the sales do gain traction, it will be in Post-Crisis Supes' favor rather than against him. I'm really not clear on how old Post-Crisis Supes is supposed to be these days, but having not read the recent Lois and Clark title, it's apparent that there's a process of sorts to make him appear more youthful, as I think he already looks younger in his Rebirth costume, than he ever did from any L&C covers that I've seen.

If DC decides to bring back Nuperman into the forefront to anchor the books, I'm OK with that. If it's determined to minimize him back to some extent in favor of Post-Crisis Superman, I'm OK with that too. However Rebirth plays out, I would prefer a much better and focused direction than what we've been getting over the past several years. DC has done Post-Crisis Superman and New52 Superman a disservice. The sale figures are mirroring that disservice.

It's high time that changes.

I think that's just some artist. He looks older in others. It's just that he shaved the beard. That makes everyone look younger.