Detective Comics #1000 Preview/Discussion

[Jeff*H]

So, which cover(s) are you guys getting?

I laid down $100 this morning for the 9 decades covers and the standard Jim Lee one. My favorites are the 1940s cover with Joker by Bruce Timm, and the 1950s cover by Michael Cho. Also fond of the 90s cover by Tim Sale.

I wish they had used the 1979 logo for the 70s cover, and the late-90s logo on the Sale cover.

[millernumber1]

1.) Dini/Nguyen Most creative and entertaining story.

2.) Tynion/Martinez Yeah I’m obviously a bit biased here, but I’m a sucker for it.

3.) King/Daniel/Jones My feelings about the size of the Batfamily are well documented, but this was a fun story and the banter was entertaining. And the message less driven into the ground than “Bruce Wayne is broken.”

4.) O’Neil/Epting Speak of that, this. But the art was nice and the final page hit alright.

5.) Priest/Adams Would be higher, but Adams pencils are a bit loose nowadays. Hoping that this “beginning” is a tease for more Batman from Priest.

6.) Bendis/Maleev Art was nice. Welp

7.) Ellis/Cloonan Batman is pain! And other things you’ve heard before. But still good.

8.) Smith/Lee Dunno it was okay but not super interesting

9.) Snyder/Capullo Don’t have it in me to put up with Snyder’s convolutions. Read it.

10.) Johns/Jones Not interesting, art wasn’t for me. Also, “Jason, Barbara, and the kids?” 3 Jokers should be interesting...

11.) Tomasi/Mahnke Just like Bendis’s portion of Action 1000, this tease seems inappropriate to this celebration issue. Also not very interesting.

I would also love some more Batman from Priest. But I'd also love more Batman from Tynion and Dini/Nguyen.

Bendis/Maleev - don't you mean "WEYP?"

I actually thought Ellis was saying more than just "Batman is pain" - but "Batman uses his pain to try to save those he can." It wasn't my favorite story, but I liked that twist at the end.

3 Jokers will at least have Fabok instead of Jones. But man, this story felt like it had way too many ideas, none of which were really well fleshed out.

So...which double pg spread do you guys think were the best, Fabok or Daniels? For me its gotta be Tony Daniel, the whole Batfam together looks great.

Fabok. Daniel is an odd duck for me - he's got tons of skill, but I never like his stuff as much as I wish. But Fabok generally works like a charm for me.

That being said, the way Daniel worked with King's script to get everyone together was really great.

All of them, but he really hurt Jason and Steph.

I don't know much about Jason, but I knew that at least a reasonable chunk of Steph fans would be frustrated. I had a lot of fun with her banter with Tim, and think their voices were spot on, but if your frustration with Steph since Rebirth has been "I don't think she should be with Tim/Tim is dominating her characterization", this definitely won't get away from that.

That he can't even get right, I've seen this pattern before. At least Tynion was accurate, I weep bitterly at night for King has in-store for us.
He will make Tynion look like a superstar.

Haha. I already think Tynion is a superstar, but I also like King a ton.

[TheJudge95]

1.) Dini/Nguyen Most creative and entertaining story.

2.) Tynion/Martinez Yeah I’m obviously a bit biased here, but I’m a sucker for it.

3.) King/Daniel/Jones My feelings about the size of the Batfamily are well documented, but this was a fun story and the banter was entertaining. And the message less driven into the ground than “Bruce Wayne is broken.”

4.) O’Neil/Epting Speak of that, this. But the art was nice and the final page hit alright.

5.) Priest/Adams Would be higher, but Adams pencils are a bit loose nowadays. Hoping that this “beginning” is a tease for more Batman from Priest.

6.) Bendis/Maleev Art was nice. Welp

7.) Ellis/Cloonan Batman is pain! And other things you’ve heard before. But still good.

8.) Smith/Lee Dunno it was okay but not super interesting

9.) Snyder/Capullo Don’t have it in me to put up with Snyder’s convolutions. Read it.

10.) Johns/Jones Not interesting, art wasn’t for me. Also, “Jason, Barbara, and the kids?” 3 Jokers should be interesting...

11.) Tomasi/Mahnke Just like Bendis’s portion of Action 1000, this tease seems inappropriate to this celebration issue. Also not very interesting.

This is pretty much my ranking, except King is #1 by far, and I'd place Bendis above O'Neil and Priest. And I can't rank Snyder below Smith cause I'm a fanboy.

[Schumiac]

If I was to rank…
1) Dini/Nguyen – heads and shoulders above all
2) Tynion/Martinez
3) Smith/Lee
4) O’Neil/Epting
5) Snyder/Capullo
6) King/Daniel/Jones
7) Priest/Adams
8) Johns/Jones
9) Tomasi/Mahnke – on the fence on this. Story doesn’t work for a celebration issue so could be lowest… but was more interesting then some of the others …
10) Ellis/Cloonan
11) Bendis/Maleev

spoilers:

Snyder – was ok, liked the idea of a super secret elitist society/guild for detectives but Batman coming off as a noob was a bit weird. Smith – Good idea,bad execution. I don’t know who was the first person who decided rich people will just pay much more than the price asked for an item “just because” but it always pisses me off (they may be super rich and spending money on outrageous stuff but doesn’t mean they are idiots who will pay someone $1500 for an item they just asked $1000 for). Especially given this guy is basically making money off his parents’ deaths, I had a hard time believing Bruce would just give him much more money than he asked… and the “I am going to make this metal pay for what it did” monologue was a bit cringe-worthy, felt too forced at times… I actually like the idea of Bruce melting the gun that killed his parents and using it in his armor, but the execution was lacking. Dini- Absolutely LOVED IT… Perfect story is perfect. Also, Team Damian on this. Come on guys, dont’t be mean, let Damian play too… Ellis- so-so… generic Batman story… maybe if it wasn’t right after Dini’s would have fared better, felt rather boring after that… O’Neill – Had higher hopes. Prefer the original. And I know it is following on the original in style but I kept thinking how Leslie looked like Dolores Umbridge, which wasn’t helping… Priest – Another classic Batman story… Solid, but not particularly creative or interesting. Bendis – Had read it when it was released as preview. Basically an “Even when they are 80 years old, Penguin sucks, Batman rocks” story and I have never been a big fan of those. Wasnt that memorable. Didn’t bother to read again. Johns – Art was off – Cat looked too old, and whereas Catwoman and Batman looked old there were times Jim Gordon looked younger than them which was weird. Damian at that age, with all his experience, still getting the same treatment as his “baby sister” is also wrong (and his body's proportions were way off in that "posing" shot of the family). And I get that it was all just a “birthday wish dream” on Bruce’s part and nice to see he DOES dream of retirement one day, but a letter from Joker's son to Uncle Batsie? As a final good-bye? Meh... Tyrion: Robin is a big part of Batman, and Dick is the one who defined it, the original one. Of course there had to be a homage to them, they deserve it. A hero forged in the light. Story got to rub it in how much I miss Nightwing/Dick… Also love that he was eavesdropping all this time without Bruce noticing. Heh. King: Cute idea, but again lost me on the execution. I love the Bat family but they were simply tiring here. It was as if King thinks them all as 5 years-olds who are rather very much scared of and in awe of Daddy… It was like not a single one of them could gather the courage to utter a Word to Bruce, so instead they were collectively having verbal diarrhoea talking about Bruce, even when he is standing right there. Ugh. Also, at some point I was going “Oh my God, what is King’s obession with Crazy Quilt?”. Then I realized he probably was feeling lazy and just copied Dick and Bruce’s previous exchange about the guy here too, because, you know, it is the kind of joke you tell over and over and over… Tomasi: Didn’t feel like it belonged in a celebration story… The “Badman” thing was cringworthy. But that aside, managed to make me intrigued for what is next. Intrigued but also kind of dreading as it has the potential to go so bad…

end of spoilers

[uchihafanboy]

I don't know much about Jason, but I knew that at least a reasonable chunk of Steph fans would be frustrated. I had a lot of fun with her banter with Tim, and think their voices were spot on, but if your frustration with Steph since Rebirth has been "I don't think she should be with Tim/Tim is dominating her characterization", this definitely won't get away from that.

That's not it, by virtue of this being a family thing, Steph was going to be with Tim. I don't mind that, I just don't like the way he wrote her.

King: Cute idea, but again lost me on the execution. I love the Bat family but they were simply tiring here. It was as if King thinks them all as 5 years-olds who are rather very much scared of and in awe of Daddy… It was like not a single one of them could gather the courage to utter a Word to Bruce, so instead they were collectively having verbal diarrhoea talking about Bruce, even when he is standing right there. Ugh. Also, at some point I was going “Oh my God, what is King’s obession with Crazy Quilt?”. Then I realized he probably was feeling lazy and just copied Dick and Bruce’s previous exchange about the guy here too, because, you know, it is the kind of joke you tell over and over and over…

This is it, I don't mind the batfamily having banter since I've seen tumblr blogs do better but King found a way to ruin it. And the fact they were scared an in awe of Daddy was just more upsetting. That's not who Jason, that's never who Jason is. It's like he found a way to ruin to one thing I was looking forward to in this issue.

[millernumber1]

spoilers:

Smith – Good idea,bad execution. I don’t know who was the first person who decided rich people will just pay much more than the price asked for an item “just because” but it always pisses me off (they may be super rich and spending money on outrageous stuff but doesn’t mean they are idiots who will pay someone $1500 for an item they just asked $1000 for). Especially given this guy is basically making money off his parents’ deaths, I had a hard time believing Bruce would just give him much more money than he asked… and the “I am going to make this metal pay for what it did” monologue was a bit cringe-worthy, felt too forced at times… I actually like the idea of Bruce melting the gun that killed his parents and using it in his armor, but the execution was lacking. O’Neill – Had higher hopes. Prefer the original. And I know it is following on the original in style but I kept thinking how Leslie looked like Dolores Umbridge, which wasn’t helping… Johns – Art was off – Cat looked too old, and whereas Catwoman and Batman looked old there were times Jim Gordon looked younger than them which was weird. Damian at that age, with all his experience, still getting the same treatment as his “baby sister” is also wrong (and his body's proportions were way off in that "posing" shot of the family). And I get that it was all just a “birthday wish dream” on Bruce’s part and nice to see he DOES dream of retirement one day, but a letter from Joker's son to Uncle Batsie? As a final good-bye? Meh... King: Cute idea, but again lost me on the execution. I love the Bat family but they were simply tiring here. It was as if King thinks them all as 5 years-olds who are rather very much scared of and in awe of Daddy… It was like not a single one of them could gather the courage to utter a Word to Bruce, so instead they were collectively having verbal diarrhoea talking about Bruce, even when he is standing right there. Ugh. Also, at some point I was going “Oh my God, what is King’s obession with Crazy Quilt?”. Then I realized he probably was feeling lazy and just copied Dick and Bruce’s previous exchange about the guy here too, because, you know, it is the kind of joke you tell over and over and over… Tomasi: Didn’t feel like it belonged in a celebration story… The “Badman” thing was cringworthy. But that aside, managed to make me intrigued for what is next. Intrigued but also kind of dreading as it has the potential to go so bad…

end of spoilers

Smith's bothered me more because everyone sounded too much like Smith. Maybe that's just because I knew it was him, but...there was no real sense of the character, at least in the final monologue.

I agree about O'Neil - I was a bit let down. I appreciate that Epting managed to imitate the original so much, but I don't think it was worth it. Plus the opening splash page was unnecessary emotionally and narratively. I think O'Neil should have used that page to develop the relationship between Bruce and Leslie more, so it didn't feel so hostile.

Huh, I didn't catch that reading of the Johns story. That...made it so much worse.

I didn't read all the talking as lazy or samevoice, but I know that fans seem to be split. Some are like me, and think there's very careful voicing going on, some think that it's all samevoice. And the Crazy Quilt and Kite Man things I think are more like callbacks than trying to reuse stuff.

Badman just feels like a meme waiting to happen.

[Godlike13]

King: Cute idea, but again lost me on the execution. I love the Bat family but they were simply tiring here. It was as if King thinks them all as 5 years-olds who are rather very much scared of and in awe of Daddy… It was like not a single one of them could gather the courage to utter a Word to Bruce, so instead they were collectively having verbal diarrhoea talking about Bruce, even when he is standing right there. Ugh. Also, at some point I was going “Oh my God, what is King’s obession with Crazy Quilt?”. Then I realized he probably was feeling lazy and just copied Dick and Bruce’s previous exchange about the guy here too, because, you know, it is the kind of joke you tell over and over and over…

Well here’s the thing about the current Batfamily, half of them aren’t actually that close to Batman. And the ones that are either didn’t care or don’t need explanations for his actions.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I enjoyed it. I liked the King/Daniels/Jones quite a bit. I don't know what the problem would be with Steph, she's at her best pushing Tim's buttons. For better or worse, they are back to 16 and the growth after Battle for the Cowl up to Flashpoint is gone for them. Smith/Lee was neat, but confusing since I thought he had the gun all a long, I know Year Two is not in continuity anymore though.

I wish they would have put O'Neil and Adams together though.

[Korath]

I need more time to digest everything, but I really disliked most of the voice King gave the Bat-Family members, especially Duke and Jason. Even Damian and Nightwing felt off. That's a shame, because it had great potential, but I found it lacking in the end. So far, my favorite is Snyder's, with his pursuit of clues and all, but all of them were at least good.

[sunofdarkchild]

Dini's was great. The batfamily creating a bumbling henchman specifically to mess with the supervillains is hilarious and totally something Batman would do. None of the others grabbed me that much, but nothing was offensive. Snyder's was an interesting idea, but not the best in execution.

Think I preferred Action 1000 overall.

[Schumiac]

Well here’s the thing about the current Batfamily, half of them aren’t actually that close to Batman. And the ones that are either didn’t care or don’t need explanations for his actions.

Except this was them all having a nice moment and taking a big happy family pic, after all. So there is obviously enough familiarity. And it is more of how awkward and weird it is to talk about someone when he is right there next to you, all the while not uttering a single word to him, not even a hello. It's just very off for me. And I kind of dont find Babs constantly complaining about Dick cute, or Dick repeatedly saying "I was Batman" funny... The banter between Dick and Damian was Ok, I liked Helena and Cass bonding over their dislike for the banter (very much sympathized with them, heh), I liked -what to me looked like- Catwoman getting a bit of a rise out of Ace with her cat-impression. So there were stuff that worked. But overall, the banter wasnt working for me...

I think one of the main things that worked further against the banter was the cut backs to Bruce in the cemetery, with the rain pouring down on him and he is so solemn... I guess the idea is to show his "Batfamily" brings joy to his life and lifts his spirits etc but I think it just made the banter look worse. Again, if at some point Bruce was "included" in all that "banter" thing where even one, just a single one, of them actually uttered a word to him (ok, Catwoman did say Hello to him, so I guess what I really need is maybe for him to actually talk too, more of an interaction between him and the family , it would have made quite the difference, and drive that message home more. King had some good ideas, and I did of course like that Dick was the only one who seemed to have a deeper understanding of the situation and what was going on with Bruce, but overall the execution was lacking... (& I am not sure who it was that was going on and on about "that thing" -Jason?- but its repetition was also bugging)

That's not it, by virtue of this being a family thing, Steph was going to be with Tim. I don't mind that, I just don't like the way he wrote her.

This is it, I don't mind the batfamily having banter since I've seen tumblr blogs do better but King found a way to ruin it. And the fact they were scared an in awe of Daddy was just more upsetting. That's not who Jason, that's never who Jason is. It's like he found a way to ruin to one thing I was looking forward to in this issue.

I think if it was Jason being sarcastic about it, it would have worked.... But when he comes off as genuinely scared of the prospect, it stops working...

[ermac]

O'Neil's, John's and Tynion's were the highlights for me. They showed different sides of Bats and were heavier on the emotion side.

Dini's and Smith's were clever but maybe would work better as full issues.

[Schumiac]

Dini's and Smith's were clever but maybe would work better as full issues.

I wish Dini's was a full issue...

I think there were some stories here who may have benefited from an extra page or two, tbh.

But overall I liked the short-storyformat and part of me wishes this was kept. Let Batman be the "long-term storytelling" one, while Detective can have 3-4 independent short stories revolving around Batman and hopefully, Bat-family.

[Scott Taylor]

So, DC, in the 1,000 issue of a Batman comic called Detective Comics, decides to open with a story that makes a specific statement about him being a noob detective. Are you kidding me? What dolt approved that approach? I mean, the story actually calls him a detective noob. I'm just going to pretend this didn't actually happen.

So far I have just read the first story, but I really hope it gets better from here and there are some good detective stories present.

[willtupper]

I have a question about the last page of that first story: when they're all gathered together, there are TWO people all the way in the back (with their backs to all of us).

Any clue as to whom they may be?