Bigger threat to the Marvel univers?

[kilderkin]

Yet someone chose to compare them and imposed no guidelines. Threat to humanity? Threat to the planet? Threat to the cosmos? Why isn’t Thanos the other contestant? They have similar goals; that Magneto doesn’t share. And I will reiterate. Doom sees Magneto as a threat. The only other characters he’s showered with that much attention are Reed Richards (arguably more dangerous than Doom) and Namor (who would be a better competitor for Magneto). Magneto isn’t scared of or interested in Doom.

Thanos is certainly the biggest threat in the marvel mythos from any living villain ( as appose to say a cosmic abstract like oblivion)

I've never suggested anything else, indeed several times early on in my points I stressed the earth based nature of the threats being discussed

But your point about how they view each other isn't that important, this isn't about them and some rivalry or who has the most personal power

The question was who's the bigger threat to the marvel universe

Can you point out a time when Magneto has acted on that scale, on a universal scale or genuine potential thereof, coz dooms got a couple of fair showings

Does doom see Magneto as a potential threat sure, that certainly goes both ways as the scans suggest, but that's not what we were asked

[kilderkin]

Doom.

He's beaten the X Men, Excalibur and the Avengers.

He's beaten Galactus, the beyonder and the beyonders

Any raises on this from magneto?

[JudicatorPrime]

I recall reading somewhere that Doom even has magical abilities on par with a Sorcerer Supreme. Was that canon, or some side alt story?

[kilderkin]

I recall reading somewhere that Doom even has magical abilities on par with a Sorcerer Supreme. Was that canon, or some side alt story?

When strange dropped that title he was in contention, I think it went to brother voodoo iirc

[Michael Watkins]

He's beaten Galactus, the beyonder and the beyonders

Any raises on this from magneto?

fending off Galactus and the Beyonders doesn't make him a threat to the marvel universe. and we don't even agree on what the thread is asking. some people are treating it as a versus threads. others are only comparing individual feats. him beating Galactus doesn't mean that he didn't lose to Ant-Man. there are others ways to be considered a threat. it's not always about who is strongest (Magneto is strength class 100 with his powers). Magneto, by his very existence, has fed a war between humans and mutants. the casualties are ongoing. meanwhile, Doom is sitting around his castle spying on people; looking magical artifacts to augment his abilities. to whom is Doom a threat? i can show and tell you who feels threatened by Magneto.

[Michael Watkins]

I recall reading somewhere that Doom even has magical abilities on par with a Sorcerer Supreme. Was that canon, or some side alt story?

if push came to shove, i'd back the actual Sorceror Supreme; not the guy who was rejected for the role.

[XPac]

Which is it? Is he the great destroyer or the savior of the multiverse? I’d argue that he failed at both. Reed and Franklin certainly get credit. And the Beyonders did some serious damage. I don’t think that Doom’s con was explained. And it seemed to rely on a lot of coincidence and plot induced stupidity. It goes back to my assessment of doom as the beneficiary of creator wank.

He saved the universe from the Beyonders destroying it, so I wouldn't call him a failure. He got the job done when no one else could.

Reed gets credit for restoring the multiverse, but stopping the Beyonders from destroying it goes to Doom.

Is Doom the beneficiary of creator wank? To some degree, though you can say that about super heroes in general. Doom is somewhat rare in that he gets a lot for a villain. Still, a feat is a feat.

[XPac]

When strange dropped that title he was in contention, I think it went to brother voodoo iirc

Doom was also the runner up for the sorcerer supreme title when all the candidates competed for it in Triumph and Torment (great story). Obviously Strange won, but to come in second is pretty impressive at the time. He didn't have the same degree of training he does now.

[XPac]

if push came to shove, i'd back the actual Sorceror Supreme; not the guy who was rejected for the role.

Yeah, I think it's pretty much universally accepted that Strange is the best sorcerer on earth. Still, for Doom to be considered second or third in line says a lot about him.

A lot of comments (from one person in particular) are going out of their way to emphasise that Doom without outside resources is no threat. But I think Doom being the second most powerful sorcerer on earth makes for a pretty desent counter argument.

He's not the best at magic, but he's close. He's not the smartest person on earth, but he's close. He's like 2nd or 3rd in both. And that particular combination is a big part of why he's the threat that he is. Just ONE or the other is a pretty big problem, but both is a while other level.

[babyblob]

Man I am loving reading these posts. There is a pretty good debate going on. I did ask who was the biggest threat. It doesnt matter to me if the person has prep time or uses outside tech like Doom or if his power is natural like Magnetos. I can see a case being made for both. And after reading the different posts and reading a couple stories of each I am still not sure who I would pick.

If I had to choose right now I would say that Doom has been the bigger threat to the Marvel Universe but Magneto has the potential to do more damage if he decides to. Doom being a jobber for low level heroes kinda hurts but there is no denying that he has been the big bad for a long time.

But thanks to those who have responded and given this subject a good debate. It has been fun to read.

[Michael Watkins]

Yeah, I think it's pretty much universally accepted that Strange is the best sorcerer on earth. Still, for Doom to be considered second or third in line says a lot about him.

A lot of comments (from one person in particular) are going out of their way to emphasise that Doom without outside resources is no threat. But I think Doom being the second most powerful sorcerer on earth makes for a pretty desent counter argument.

He's not the best at magic, but he's close. He's not the smartest person on earth, but he's close. He's like 2nd or 3rd in both. And that particular combination is a big part of why he's the threat that he is. Just ONE or the other is a pretty big problem, but both is a while other level.

smarts are great if you have time to think. some really smart individuals came up with the Magneto protocols. every time someone has tried to kill Magneto, they had prep time and the element of surprise on their side. he's lived a very long time because, like the Punisher, he's still (mentally) back in the war. he survived the Phoenix. he survived the Shadow King. he survived Charles Xavier erasing his mind. he survived a younger speculatively more powerful version of himself 3 times. he survived several sentinel attacks. Doom has survived some serious stuff too. but we're trying to decide who is a bigger threat. Magneto lives a significantly more dangerous life without the trappings of robotic decoys or the boundaries of a kingdom. and magic is less reliable than a handy bit of metal through the skull. i'd be saying something different if Doom wasn't all fleshy under the armor. but he isn't Thanos. he's a dude who wears armor because he needs to. his castle and surrounding areas are watched over by a robotic army. Magneto's just walking around the world mercing anti-mutant forces; doing the proactive stuff that Vic didn't think about until Reed fixed his face. and look how that turned out. shortest redemption arc ever.

[Michael Watkins]

Doom was also the runner up for the sorcerer supreme title when all the candidates competed for it in Triumph and Torment (great story). Obviously Strange won, but to come in second is pretty impressive at the time. He didn't have the same degree of training he does now.

no such thing as second place. that implies that, Strange dying or stepping down, the title goes to Doom. it didn't. he tied for last place.

[kilderkin]

fending off Galactus and the Beyonders doesn't make him a threat to the marvel universe. and we don't even agree on what the thread is asking. some people are treating it as a versus threads. others are only comparing individual feats. him beating Galactus doesn't mean that he didn't lose to Ant-Man. there are others ways to be considered a threat. it's not always about who is strongest (Magneto is strength class 100 with his powers). Magneto, by his very existence, has fed a war between humans and mutants. the casualties are ongoing. meanwhile, Doom is sitting around his castle spying on people; looking magical artifacts to augment his abilities. to whom is Doom a threat? i can show and tell you who feels threatened by Magneto.

I didn't say fender off I said beaten

He took the entire power of Galactus world ship in secret wars and then used it to defeat the beyonder, an 'omnipotent' character at the time

He did defeat the beyonders in the more recent secret wars and formed battle world, the consequences of this was he effectively subjegated all of life on earth (if not the universe depending on how that really played out out)

He only recently defeated Galactus and imprisoned him in FF

He has taken the surfers powers before

Don't even need to think about what it's like taking the I finish gauntlet, defeating the beyonder and besting all the celestials, I'm sure Magneto has some good showings in those kind of stories too

Again I reiterate, this isn't about the potential threat, or the personal power, Magneto has that in excess, but for sustained actual threat,cfor actually doing things against the 'good guys' dooms all over it, Fury's secret war showing doom was bankrolling all those super criminals activity just to cause problems is another example

[Michael Watkins]

I didn't say fender off I said beaten

He took the entire power of Galactus world ship in secret wars and then used it to defeat the beyonder, an 'omnipotent' character at the time

He did defeat the beyonders in the more recent secret wars and formed battle world, the consequences of this was he effectively subjegated all of life on earth (if not the universe depending on how that really played out out)

He only recently defeated Galactus and imprisoned him in FF

He has taken the surfers powers before

Don't even need to think about what it's like taking the I finish gauntlet, defeating the beyonder and besting all the celestials, I'm sure Magneto has some good showings in those kind of stories too

Again I reiterate, this isn't about the potential threat, or the personal power, Magneto has that in excess, but for sustained actual threat,cfor actually doing things against the 'good guys' dooms all over it, Fury's secret war showing doom was bankrolling all those super criminals activity just to cause problems is another example

that wasn't Doom. it was Lucia von Bardas. anyhoo, pretty much anyone with an infinity guantlet and the will to use it could take on a cosmic being. that's why i ignore wins that required magical deux ex machina. he's definitely good at stealing power. they had to make him that way because he's not Magneto. and, again, for a sustained threat i would point to Magneto being an active terrorist. he has a heavy bodycount and a long life. good guys aren't the end-all.

[XPac]

no such thing as second place. that implies that, Strange dying or stepping down, the title goes to Doom. it didn't. he tied for last place.

Ties for last is fine too. Call it whatever you want, the point being he's established as a very powerful sorcerer. Which makes him quite dangerous even outside whatever resiurces he can acquire.