Batman and Robin Eternal #5 Preview

[heyevaxx]

People were complaining about Cassandra's lack of personality, well, here it is...and i bet that before going after the Orphan there will be more moments like this, with Cass felling bad about her past, and even crying when thinking about it.

Quite right, her personality is starting to show up. But I hope we get more than remorse and guilt. Still, it's only issue 05 and there's lots of time for empathy, compassion, intensity, righteousness, humanity, loyalty, and a sense of humor. Oh, and being an inelegant eater (i.e. a pig!) and a complete slob.

[heyevaxx]

Cassandra probably had something to do with Harper's mom death.
I wonder how DC is gonna handle this. If they make Cass Harper's new BFF, that will improve Harper's importance in the BatFam but it will also alienate Stephanie fans who want things to go back to the way they were Pre New 52. I get that they are trying to make Harper more important than what she is (DC says she's a fan favorite but forums, reviewers and the general internet says otherwise), connecting her with Cassandra, who has a huge fanbase, could improve Harper status by proxy... or make people hate her for taking Stephanie's place.
DC is playing a difficult game.

Harp's mom was killed? I searched and it says she's motherless or her mom died. Wow, if Cass was sent to hit Harp's mom that'll mean a serious amount of drama. OldCass killed a small time crime boss is Asia but this would bring Cass' guilt right into the Batfam. Super heavy if it turns out this way.

And you're spot on about the Harp/Steph balancing act with Cassie. Speaking as an enourmous Cassandra Cain fan (2nd only to Selina) I'm fine with how it's going in BRE. And I was anti-Harper and a fan of Steph before it started.

I refuse to dig in my heels and reject Harper and become upset over tweaks or goofs on DC's part regarding NewCass. She's different, there's no way around it. I'm comfortable with that and it's gone a long way in helping me enjoy the good in BRE about Cass.

I feel bad for some Cass fans (cough, Tumblr, cough) who are upset and post profanity laced messages lambasting DC for doing this and that wrong with NewCass. It's not like we get lots of chances to enjoy a Cassandra Cain debut so I want to take it for everything it's worth. So far, the negatives haven't been that big and that frequent.

I do remember going from Batgirl #73 to EvilCass in Robin. Now that was a *huge* change and intolerable. NewCass in BRE is fine by comparison. There's still a long way to go fleshing out her character, but so far so good overall.

Harper is already more important in the Batfamily than Cass is nowadays. If anything they're using Harper to help reconnect Cass into the Batfamily.

I couldn't disagree with this more. But I'm a really big Cass fan so there's that. I didn't like Harper before BRE and now I'm liking her. And before BRE, I thought Harp was just a Snyder project because he wasn't allowed to use Cass by the DC execs. So "more important in the Batfamily" for Harp doesn't ring true to me. And Cass was easily the most popular benched character for DC. She had the first Batgirl series and was named top comic heroine I think 4 years running by fans (Wizard Mag). Either way, I don't mind the Cass/Harp pairing now and am thrilled Cass is back. Plus, Harper has really grown on me.

[Aahz]

Another good issue though I missed Steph/Jase. My guess is Cass/Harp will get just a few pages next week and we'll find out what our red and purple friends are up to.

Since Dick, Harper and Cass are supposed to be the main protagonists, it's no wonder that they get more "screen time" than Jason, tim and Steph.

And times change. The hardcore Cass and Steph BFFs fandom seem to want that reproduced, immediately in BRE. I don't mind Harper getting first dibs at being a close friend of Cass. Steph can still be her friend, maybe even her BFF, later. I think the Cass&Steph folks were too hard on BRE for the "barely a person" line and I hope they come around eventually.

Since Steph is harpers Roommate, we will probably get Cass&Steph at some point in the near future. But this actually similar to what they did with Steph in Batman Eternal, she was also a closer connection with Harper and than with Tim.

Back to Dick. So when did Tim Drake become so big an muscley? Is that part of NewTim? I remember him as smaller than Dick and Jason but now he's at least as big and beefy as both of them. Crummy cheap shot Tim! And it sounds like Tim has Batman issues. I wonder how long until we see Tim's Motherization come out into the open..

Tims size is very dependent on the artist in the new 52. But since they officially aged him down to 16 in B&R Eternal (which is wired since Dick became Robin at 16) it a little strange that they are making him this big, especially when Dick is so much smaller in the Flashbacks (where he should be 16 or 17).

[heyevaxx]

The artwork, it still hurts to look at!! D:

Good catch! I noticed this first read through: it looks like Dick has one, big, long leg with a foot at each end. The artist needed to offset his legs at his hind end but didn't.

[byrd156]

Giant, roid-juiced Tim Drake is only 16?!? Holy cow, he's drawn big for a 16 year old! I wish they'd draw him more like Robin or maybe Red Robin.

Here are the heights and weights from DC Wikia for the -2011 Robins:
5'05" 125lb - Tim
5'10" 175lb - Dick
6'00" 225lb - Jason

They all seem the same size in some BRE shots. Plus, Tim is huge for a 16 year old with a face that looks 30s at least. Especially the 2 shots with him hugging his parents at the end of 05.

Eh I'm 17 and and I'm bigger than Dick according to that wiki. There are a ton of guys at my high school who are around Jason's size or bigger and are my age or a year or two younger. It's not that unbelievable for Tim to be his size at his age.

[Godlike13]

I couldn't disagree with this more. But I'm a really big Cass fan so there's that. I didn't like Harper before BRE and now I'm liking her. And before BRE, I thought Harp was just a Snyder project because he wasn't allowed to use Cass by the DC execs. So "more important in the Batfamily" for Harp doesn't ring true to me. And Cass was easily the most popular benched character for DC. She had the first Batgirl series and was named top comic heroine I think 4 years running by fans (Wizard Mag). Either way, I don't mind the Cass/Harp pairing now and am thrilled Cass is back. Plus, Harper has really grown on me.

What is there to disagree about. Cass has no relationship that we know of with Batman or any of the Batfamily members, no role or importance to speak of now a days. U don't have to like it but it is what it is. Harper at least having a current relationship with Batman and other members of the bat family gives her more importance in the current Bat family than Cass. Who has none of those things now. They're using Harper as a viewpoint here, not only to help reintroduce and reconnect Cass to the readers but also to the current Bat family.
Harper catches shit all the time too because of it. Some people don't like that this newbie is more important and has more or a role now then these once popular characters who've been benched. Which is understandable, but again. It is what it is.

[J. D. Guy]

This is the first issue since they were brought into the story that Jason and Steph missed an issue. And they missed it together, too. ;P

So when did Tim Drake become so big an muscley? Is that part of NewTim? I remember him as smaller than Dick and Jason but now he's at least as big and beefy as both of them.

Yeah, that seems to be a "Depending On The Artist" thing. I guess you could say it's "revenge" (if you wanna) for the trend for some artists to draw teenagers perpetually smaller than adults, regardless of whether it would make sense or not for said teenager to specifically be so.

Eh I'm 17 and and I'm bigger than Dick according to that wiki. There are a ton of guys at my high school who are around Jason's size or bigger and are my age or a year or two younger. It's not that unbelievable for Tim to be his size at his age.

Precisely. In many respects Tim looking like he does in this issue is likely more accurate on average for a 16 year-old who obviously works out then most other "expected" portrayals tend to be. It is, of course, case by case, person by person, but it isn't really that shocking a thing, provided you realize that "all teens aren't short" as they tend to be portrayed (unless it's in their DNA, of course).

Now that I think on it, 5'5 for Tim's "official" height seems kind of short, even for some who may still have some growth spurt left in him.

[Lady Nightwing]

It was nice to see Cassandra's personality develop a little. Harper didn't annoy me either, which is a plus. I like the idea of Poppy stealing God Garden tech and Spyral humour is always appreciated. I think they missed an opportunity with Tim though. He is still an insufferable tool. So far in the reboot Dick had been sucker punched/bitch slapped by Bruce, Jason, Babs and now Tim. *sigh*

[Godlike13]

So far in the reboot Dick had been sucker punched/bitch slapped by Bruce, Jason, Babs and now Tim. *sigh*

At least he doesn't have to worry about that with Al

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Dick was far more family to the Teen Titans than every other Bat member except for Bruce/Damian since the grew up, fought, and even lived together which I don't think Dick ever lived with any of them since he was in college own his own by the time any of them came around.

[Lady Nightwing]

At least he doesn't have to worry about that with Al

Too soon The statue of St. Ellijah, is that a tunnel leading somewhere or just a hidey hole for dangerous assassin types?

[Nite-Wing]

Dick didn't know about witless protection meaning Tim doesn't trust many people with his parents safety.
These Robins sure do love to talk crap about Bruce even something as harmless as meeting Tim's parents is the ultimate betrayal that only Bruce would stoop low enough to do. Now Dick got the sucker punch Bruce would have got(but he already knows about witless protection)
hmmm
You would think Tim would move his family out of Gotham but then again I'm putting too much thought into a Lobdell story

[JasonTodd428]

Dick didn't know about witless protection meaning Tim doesn't trust many people with his parents safety.
These Robins sure do love to talk crap about Bruce even something as harmless as meeting Tim's parents is the ultimate betrayal that only Bruce would stoop low enough to do. Now Dick got the sucker punch Bruce would have got(but he already knows about witless protection)
hmmm
You would think Tim would move his family out of Gotham but then again I'm putting too much thought into a Lobdell story

I'm not sure that those people are really his parents at all. First off according to this continuity Tim's last name isn't even Drake and he only took up that name after his parents went into witness protection so why on Earth would his real parents be living in hiding under that name and in Gotham of all place. Second Tim was not supposed to have contact with them at all, that was part of the whole Witness Protection deal, and according to Teen Titans he's been stuck having to watch them live their new lives from afar. As far as we know he's not had any contact with them so it's strange that he would suddenly have been speaking with them.

I believe that the Drakes aren't what they appear to be just as Tim isn't who he appears to be. I think they are more of Mother's children just as Tim is. The whole encounter had "set up" written all over it. That trap infused house was not meant to protect his "parents" but to take out Dick or anyone who dug to deeply into his past. The fact that Tim had endangered his parents in the past also gives him a plausible excuse for having all these elaborate traps built into the house his "parents" live in the event that whomever got to nosy managed to escape. He could simply say he was merely protecting them and anyone would be thrown off the scent.

[heyevaxx]

Eh I'm 17 and and I'm bigger than Dick according to that wiki. There are a ton of guys at my high school who are around Jason's size or bigger and are my age or a year or two younger. It's not that unbelievable for Tim to be his size at his age.

I'm not saying there are no big 16 year olds but in contrast to the old Tim Drake, the new one is very big. And there's a shot, I think in BRE04, showing Dick/Tim/Jase all the same height and build. Big and muscley. I wish they'd show so variation in the Robin's size.

[heyevaxx]

What is there to disagree about. Cass has no relationship that we know of with Batman or any of the Batfamily members, no role or importance to speak of now a days. U don't have to like it but it is what it is. Harper at least having a current relationship with Batman and other members of the bat family gives her more importance in the current Bat family than Cass. Who has none of those things now. They're using Harper as a viewpoint here, not only to help reintroduce and reconnect Cass to the readers but also to the current Bat family.
Harper catches shit all the time too because of it. Some people don't like that this newbie is more important and has more or a role now then these once popular characters who've been benched. Which is understandable, but again. It is what it is.

I have no argument that in the current Batman comics timeline, Harper is an established character with a history while Cass is not (well, only 5 issues).

What I disagree with is the statement: "Harper is already more important in the Batfamily than Cass is nowadays." More important in the Batfamily is a personal judgment and crosses timelines. It sounds more like Harper is more important or more related to the Batfam. I know about the current timeline but from a fandom point of view, Harp is small compared to Cass.

"If anything they're using Harper to help reconnect Cass into the Batfamily." This sounds really weird. I think you mean from within the Gotham world, Harp will help Cass get established with the Batfam. If that's your point, no argument there. But, again, from a fandom and I think from a DC business point of view, Cass is going to help Harper Row get established in comics. This is just my opinion of course and opinions differ sometimes.