Voting on new X-Men team begins tomorrow

[Master of Sound]

I disagree. While I do understand where you are coming from, Polaris has seniority and is the 2nd female to join the X-men. Having said that, Lorna has been mistreated and underdeveloped for most of her history. Havok has more exposure and more respect than Lorna has. To me Polaris should win and if she doesn’t, I’m leaving the X-universe for good.

Why would you, she is a leading character in X-Factor at the moment.

[rhaenylis]

Why would you, she is a leading character in X-Factor at the moment.

But she's not well written so far

[ericng]

But she's not well written so far

Agree. Northstar/Aurora are the stars of X-Factor not Polaris.

Polaris should get as much exposure as Jean in X-Men.

I think Banshee/Siryin appeared in X-Factor 7 so he/she might replace Polaris after she leaves the team.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Last I knew Lorna wasn't leaving just going to be in two books or something along those lines...

[salarta]

I think the issue with completely doing away with characters who have been around that length of time is that they're popular still. You really only have to look at the results of the vote, it looks like two characters over 50 years old are going to be the top of the pile.

Whether anyone likes it or not, comics sell on the popularity of characters, artists and writers, and sales are what drives the story. X-Men is now a franchise that is almost 60 years old and for the first half of the existence of the franchise there were very few members of the team, or in fact mutants who were even seen.

From around 1990 though, the numbers have increased exponentially, so of course it's always difficult to get favourite characters on to teams, especially the flagship team. But there are characters who got the franchise through those more difficult first 30 years and probably they should be shown some respect.

Most of the problem for comics and constantly keeping the old guard is because past constant use has set a precedent and expectations. I think I can make a comparison with game franchises, here.

Devil May Cry tried to shift away from Dante with Devil May Cry 4, and have new character Nero take up the franchise. However, fans were incredibly resistant to this because after 3 games, Dante was seen as the face of the franchise. He's "the star." They didn't like him being replaced by someone newer and younger. By contrast, the Final Fantasy franchise didn't stick with the same set of characters or even the same world for its sequels. Every main numbered installment is its own unique world with unique characters. Concepts and themes cross over, and since the late 90s/early 00s there's been sequels and side games with returning characters, but the main series is always new. And that doesn't cause backlash, because that precedent was set from the start. Though FF8 did have backlash, mostly because newcomers via FF7 didn't yet know how Final Fantasy does its sequels.

I can't say I "have the answer" to what X-Men comics should do about this issue. I think they're between a rock and a hard place. Decades worth of this precedent makes it harder to move away from it, and would seriously hurt sales, at the very least in the short term. At the same time, X-Men does have a big problem of being so wrapped up in its most heavily used and popular characters that they apply things to them that really don't fit, while ignoring less appreciated characters where those things actually apply. Like for example, what was done to Lorna in X-Factor #4 would've been far more appropriate coming from a character that was close to Rockslide than from Lorna. This is part of why I have the opinion that teams should really be a mix of more popular characters and less appreciated ones. The popular characters have recognition and status, the less appreciated ones bring new stories and become more well known.

But if Marvel were to seriously consider "retiring" older characters, then in my opinion, a couple things should be part of the planning. One, characters who haven't truly received the respect they should, deserve to get a spotlight before they're retired. Doesn't matter how old they are. Two, characters that have been "retired" should still show up for relevant stories. I'm thinking, for example, I wouldn't want Magneto, Jean, etc to be left out of stories where they're meaningful for Polaris just because they're retired. That prevents stories from truly being told. It would be in many ways just as bad as how Marvel ignores less appreciated characters when they have a stake in events.

Why would you, she is a leading character in X-Factor at the moment.

She's a very visibly used character. That's not the same as leading.

Also what rhaenylis said. Lorna has maybe been good for X-Factor, because it can market off her image and use her to push other characters' stories forward. X-Factor has not been good for Lorna, because it's ignored her history and past development while holding her back as a team member on a smaller satellite book, unable to do or be anything more meaningful than that. Not even team leader.

Edit: On a related topic, I saw a lot of X-Factor fans on Twitter during the vote trying to argue that Lorna was either X-Factor's team leader or co-leader with Northstar. Which is false not just in how she's written, but even in interviews Williams explicitly said Lorna is not the team leader. She said Lorna is the "north star" of the team which some could interpret as leading the leader, but just reads to me like a nice way of saying "demoted to supporting character."

[Big Joe]

Most of the problem for comics and constantly keeping the old guard is because past constant use has set a precedent and expectations. I think I can make a comparison with game franchises, here.

Devil May Cry tried to shift away from Dante with Devil May Cry 4, and have new character Nero take up the franchise. However, fans were incredibly resistant to this because after 3 games, Dante was seen as the face of the franchise. He's "the star." They didn't like him being replaced by someone newer and younger. By contrast, the Final Fantasy franchise didn't stick with the same set of characters or even the same world for its sequels. Every main numbered installment is its own unique world with unique characters. Concepts and themes cross over, and since the late 90s/early 00s there's been sequels and side games with returning characters, but the main series is always new. And that doesn't cause backlash, because that precedent was set from the start. Though FF8 did have backlash, mostly because newcomers via FF7 didn't yet know how Final Fantasy does its sequels.

I can't say I "have the answer" to what X-Men comics should do about this issue. I think they're between a rock and a hard place. Decades worth of this precedent makes it harder to move away from it, and would seriously hurt sales, at the very least in the short term. At the same time, X-Men does have a big problem of being so wrapped up in its most heavily used and popular characters that they apply things to them that really don't fit, while ignoring less appreciated characters where those things actually apply. Like for example, what was done to Lorna in X-Factor #4 would've been far more appropriate coming from a character that was close to Rockslide than from Lorna. This is part of why I have the opinion that teams should really be a mix of more popular characters and less appreciated ones. The popular characters have recognition and status, the less appreciated ones bring new stories and become more well known.

But if Marvel were to seriously consider "retiring" older characters, then in my opinion, a couple things should be part of the planning. One, characters who haven't truly received the respect they should, deserve to get a spotlight before they're retired. Doesn't matter how old they are. Two, characters that have been "retired" should still show up for relevant stories. I'm thinking, for example, I wouldn't want Magneto, Jean, etc to be left out of stories where they're meaningful for Polaris just because they're retired. That prevents stories from truly being told. It would be in many ways just as bad as how Marvel ignores less appreciated characters when they have a stake in events.



She's a very visibly used character. That's not the same as leading.

Also what rhaenylis said. Lorna has maybe been good for X-Factor, because it can market off her image and use her to push other characters' stories forward. X-Factor has not been good for Lorna, because it's ignored her history and past development while holding her back as a team member on a smaller satellite book, unable to do or be anything more meaningful than that. Not even team leader.

Edit: On a related topic, I saw a lot of X-Factor fans on Twitter during the vote trying to argue that Lorna was either X-Factor's team leader or co-leader with Northstar. Which is false not just in how she's written, but even in interviews Williams explicitly said Lorna is not the team leader. She said Lorna is the "north star" of the team which some could interpret as leading the leader, but just reads to me like a nice way of saying "demoted to supporting character."

Interesting. You and I see eye to eye on a lot of things, but I come at the X-Factor thing from a completely different angle.

I think it's a further proof of her strength as a character now that she can carry a book by not being the person described as the leader. I also think that in all but title she's the leader of the group. She's far and away the most important character there. I actually think that her standing up to her father's expectations of her showed bravery as well.

My thinking is that she's probably acting as independently as she ever has, no reliance on anyone but herself. You're right about the thing with Rockslide though, maybe she was the wrong character to use like that.

[Devaishwarya]

Last I knew Lorna wasn't leaving just going to be in two books or something along those lines...

And that's if she won the X-Men election. We still have no clue who actually won.

[PhoenixThanos]

Any idea when the poll winner is announced ?

[salarta]

Any idea when the poll winner is announced ?

June when they do the Hellfire Gala story.

[Odd Rödney]

Last I knew Lorna wasn't leaving just going to be in two books or something along those lines...

That could work. Hell, Logan was in every damn book a while back. Why not Lorna?

[blanchett]

That could work. Hell, Logan was in every damn book a while back. Why not Lorna?

Williams has said she's going to still be in the book but not as much. She'll basically become a supporting character.

[Odd Rödney]

Williams has said she's going to still be in the book but not as much. She'll basically become a supporting character.

She is already on the verge of essentially being a supporting character in X-Factor, right? I mean it is almost like a Northstar & Friends book at this point. That being said, I like X-Factor, Williams character interactions are really good in my opinion.

Lorna hopefully will have more to do in X-Men, I'd certainly like to see that.

[JudicatorPrime]

I don't care JDW voted tempo and they all saw the demand, she has bagged something thats for sure! I have never seen such an extreme increase of visibility, demand and fanart/ edits.
A zero to hero story

The demands for Tempo haven't reached a fevered pitch yet. In the old days you'd see characters mentioned for months, if not years, as possible X-men candidates. I still remember the early noise for characters like Longshot, Betsy, and Dazzler just to name a few to get a spot on the team. When they were finally onboarded most of the fanbase was like, "What the hell took you so long?!?" I suspect that will be the case for Tempo.

[Ferro]

The demands for Tempo haven't reached a fevered pitch yet. In the old days you'd see characters mentioned for months, if not years, as possible X-men candidates. I still remember the early noise for characters like Longshot, Betsy, and Dazzler just to name a few to get a spot on the team. When they were finally onboarded most of the fanbase was like, "What the hell took you so long?!?" I suspect that will be the case for Tempo.

she wins anyway on the big picture placement!

[DragonPiece]

strong guy and forge lost the vote: https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1381245688177168385