Heroes you love, but don't think should be in the Justice League

[Shockingjustice]

Same here. My wife watched the first.....ten minutes of the pilot maybe, and that was it, but even she's noticed that Midoriya can't go two minutes without crying.

Honestly, one of the things I enjoy most about the show is comparing it to Western comics and culture. So many similarities, and yet so many differences. Like, every hero in MHA is a civil servant, registered, paid, and trained by the government, while most American superheroes are technically vigilantes without any legal support (even if the law turns a blind eye to it, Batman and Superman are still legally criminals). And then there's the cultural stuff; characters like the little pervert Mineta would never work in an American production.



That's a good point.

I myself prefer the "modern pantheon" concept. The Titans are a mixed family type of group who live and work together (so are the Avengers) but the League is like a Olympic basketball Dream Team; the best players getting together for the really special occasions.

I'm a fan of the "institution/huge organization" idea too, and I think it's worked really well in things like the JLU cartoon and Hickman's Avengers World (which was very clearly a JLA or Legion story adapted to fit Marvel). But unless the League is gonna be a big army like that where virtually everyone gets involved, then I want the League to be the pantheon, not Friends with Superpowers.

See the problem with this is that a POC will never be seen as a important pantheon. They're not part of the original JL8 and the closest one that could be great, Cyborg, is ripped apart in almost every other issue. This makes it feel like the league thinks that only those who look like them are worth a damn. It doesn't feel like the organically came together because they are the best of the best. Which is why the huge organizations feels like it works better for those who like anyone that isn't apart of the "Dream Team."

Anyway I am a fan of Cyborg, but he absolutely should not be on the league if all they're ever going to do is destroy him and constantly portray him as imperfect and broken compared to the rest of the league.

[MoneySpider]

Seriously though, this is a good position to take. I prefer to think that any team with individuals like Superman and Wonder Woman on it, due to their *nature*, if not their 'power level', is never going to say to someone, 'You're not good enough for the League. Stick to the minors.' Clark and Diana, in particular, are *nice* people, and seem very likely to honor and respect heroes with less (or no) powers, who fight the good fight, like Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkwoman, etc.

About the only people I'd say don't fit are those that don't fit tonally, like Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew, the Inferior Five or Ambush Bug.

There are a few characters that *should* have bigger responsibilities, like Dr. Fate or Green Lanterns, but the universe seems to run itself just fine with them hanging out on earth, doing a whole heck of a lot of 'not much' for their actual jobs, so, whatev.

I remember in an older Justice League issue when Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman were discussing who to recruit for League, Batman remarked that Vixen "wasn't there yet" or "wasn't ready yet" for the League (which of course in my opinion was utter crap). His preference was Animal Man. I don't recall if Animal Man actually joined at that point, though.

[Shamrock Holmes]

I remember in an older Justice League issue when Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman were discussing who to recruit for League, Batman remarked that Vixen "wasn't there yet" or "wasn't ready yet" for the League (which of course in my opinion was utter crap). His preference was Animal Man. I don't recall if Animal Man actually joined at that point, though.

Actually, IIRC that conversation was set during The Tornado's Path and it was Vixen - along with Hawkgirl and new recruits Black Lightning, Red Arrow and Geo-Force - that rejoined the League not Animal Man. Which is almost ironic.

[docmidnite]

I'm aware he's been on the League but he only recently was put back on it in the Justice/Doom war since Flashpoint; in fact he turned them down initially. you clearly missed what I said after you said Black Lightning because I said he more than deserves to be in the League but I like him not being on the Justicd League team and I think him taking The Outsiders as his team would be a cool alternative. Not every powerhouse needs to be on the League team, especially since DC has a tendency to have some characters on the JL team matter more than others. as much as I'm a fan of him, Snyder's Justice League is a pretty good example of this. I love BL and I'd just rather he lead his own team and be a heavy to they call in the clutch when shit really hits the fan or when they specifically need him, than to be yet another extremely powerful character waiting like wallpaper to be bossed around by Batman.

edit: also I don't see why needs to be him OR Vic and John. the rule of 3, alive and well I see smh

Umm… I never said anything about a rule of three or any of that crap .I strictly was going by criteria as compared to other regular league members (power levels, legacy characters, relationships with other league members, ,publishing success, etc.) Like Tony Isabella himself said, “keeping Jefferson in the Outsiders is like keeping him in the little leagues“

BTW, I’m a black male from Guyana.

[Vampire Savior]

That's an issue with everyone though, as you yourself point out. Most of the time everyone is drawn the exact same way and the only real difference is hair style and color. And costume, of course!

Your point is taken, but these dudes even bizarrely have the same hair style. They literally, literally look like the exact same person, and that would take me right out of the story.

[lemonpeace]

Umm… I never said anything about a rule of three or any of that crap .I strictly was going by criteria as compared to other regular league members (power levels, legacy characters, relationships with other league members, ,publishing success, etc.) Like Tony Isabella himself said, “keeping Jefferson in the Outsiders is like keeping him in the little leagues“

BTW, I’m a black male from Guyana.

I'm a black guy from America by way of Nigeria, you're point? by framing it as one or the other it's still playing into the rule of three; you being black doesn't change that. I was talking about Black Lightning, you're the one who brought up John Stewart and Cyborg as if it's the battle for who should be the token of the League, which is EXACTLY why I'm more than fine with Jefferson continuing to refuse to be on the Justice League team instead of being the token to add some color to the wallpaper. the comparison is not only unnecessary but also pretty arbitrary. but hey whatever, I'm not gonna be they guy to explain that to you because (genuinely with all due respect) I just don't care if you get it or not.

does he deserve a spot at the top of the DC pantheon? yes. can he still be part of the Justice League organization and team up with the core team when need be? yea, I've said that multiple times. but at the end of the day I would rather they let him own the Outsiders as his team, part of his mythos going forward, because he deserves his own team too. Batman can run 15 different teams with no issue but suggesting Black Lightning have one is "keeping him in little league"? miss me with that noise, Isabella has been out of touch for years and I stopped taking anything he says about Black Lightning seriously a long time ago and doubly so when his first reaction to Black Lightning leading the new Outsiders helmed by probably the most diverse creative team the character has had ever was "my character is being used as a support negro" without reading the damn issue. I'm so beyond done with this bs that the only way characters can be seen as "legit" and "in the big leagues" is if they are in proximity of the "big ticket" characters" instead of just putting them in positions to do their own thing and grow in their own right.

[lemonpeace]

Your point is taken, but these dudes even bizarrely have the same hair style. They literally, literally look like the exact same person, and that would take me right out of the story.

if Young Justice can figure it out, there is no reason DC couldn't simply update their looks to distinguish them
it's a problem that DC puts so little thought into their character designs that all their black men look more or less the same but it's really a non-problem that could be remedied in one issue. "oh nice hair John" "ah, I see you grew out your beard, how's Lynn?" ta-da problem solved.

[Vampire Savior]

if Young Justice can figure it out, there is no reason DC couldn't simply update their looks to distinguish them
it's a problem that DC puts so little thought into their character designs that all their black men look more or less the same but it's really a non-problem that could be remedied in one issue. "oh nice hair John" "ah, I see you grew out your beard, how's Lynn?" ta-da problem solved.

Sure the people making the comics could do that, but until they do that, they haven't done that. And I can even believe that, put in the situation, they wouldn't do that, because I've seen very recent comics featuring Black Lightning where he looks a lot like some other black guy in the comic, except larger in stature...and two Asian girls also look more or less the same. So yeah, it would be a simple enough fix, and it's not outside the realm of possibility, but I'm not going to go out on a limb and assume it would happen. I mean, you would think that the people would have enough sense not to make so many of their black men look the same, considering black people actually do come in quite a variety of shades and appearances, but here we are...

[Ascended]

I remember in an older Justice League issue when Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman were discussing who to recruit for League, Batman remarked that Vixen "wasn't there yet" or "wasn't ready yet" for the League (which of course in my opinion was utter crap). His preference was Animal Man. I don't recall if Animal Man actually joined at that point, though.

No, he didn't join. Vixen saved everyone (including Bat-douche) by one-shoting Amazo (or maybe it was Grundy?) and joined the League instead, and soon thereafter discovered she could mimic the abilities of metahumans (because people are animals too) and got a massive power upgrade.

"Not ready" my ass. Wasn't even the first time Mari had joined the team.

[Frontier]

if Young Justice can figure it out, there is no reason DC couldn't simply update their looks to distinguish them
it's a problem that DC puts so little thought into their character designs that all their black men look more or less the same but it's really a non-problem that could be remedied in one issue. "oh nice hair John" "ah, I see you grew out your beard, how's Lynn?" ta-da problem solved.

Not sure if it's an issue of DC's character designs since those can be so dependent on the artist.

[lemonpeace]

Not sure if it's an issue of DC's character designs since those can be so dependent on the artist.

i think it's equal parts the artist and DC themself. if they can mandate that Cyborg be a clunky metal monstrosity, I'm sure they can see their black male characters, see they're all have the same civilian design, and mandate they differentiate them from each other and keep that change consistent.

[Ascended]

Not sure if it's an issue of DC's character designs since those can be so dependent on the artist.

It's largely on the individual artist. You can draw Cyborg and John Stewart looking virtually identical, as people do with Clark and Bruce, or you can draw Vic to look like Michael B Jordan and John to look like Evander Holyfield. (just an example)

A lot of artists are just going to use the same "stock" designs for characters, making them look almost the exact same except for haircuts and costumes though. Not only is that a "skill and talent" problem it's also a "deadline" problem.

So what DC the company can do is mandate specific details that set characters apart visually. Just like Clark and Bruce have different haircuts, just make sure your artists are doing the same with everyone else.

It's no harder to make your PoC visually distinct than it is the white guys. DC just needs to establish a few art mandates to ensure everyone doesn't end up with the same haircut.

It wouldn't hurt if they hired artists who can make everyone look unique either, but that's not really feasible for several reasons.

[Robanker]

Easily Nightwing for me. He'd be redundant at best and used to prop up Batman at worst. Moreover, I think he sees that as Bruce's team and would just go his own way (sorry, Tom King, but I don't think he cares much that he used to be Batman).

Given his skill at leadership, fostering young talent and forming interpersonal relationships, I can totally see him joining the JSA someday as one of the older new generation to mentor the fresh batch of heroes the way Power Girl is used on that team.

[Riv86672]

Given his skill at leadership, fostering young talent and forming interpersonal relationships, I can totally see him joining the JSA someday as one of the older new generation to mentor the fresh batch of heroes the way Power Girl is used on that team.

That’s a suggestion i’ve Never heard heard before. Never would have thought of placing NW in the JSA!

[docmidnite]

Black Canary is another one I don’t think should be in the League. Outside of past membership and relationships with a few League members she doesn’t meet the rest of the criteria for League membership.