Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

We don't know how Wakanda was doing, but they were probably doing slightly better than the rest of the world. And again, when he became King and opened Wakanda what happened? They got invaded and then the snap. They saw that there are powers out there that can rival their own tech. It would be stupid for T'Challa to open Wakanda then just peace out. Your cannot logically make it happen without it looking very stupid.

Abd your cant nake an accurate comparison because comic Shuri is MCU Shuri In name only And no where in the source material did T'Challa get snapped and was dead for 5 years. And we already know mcu doesn't follow source material outside of general outlines

Again, I think the fact that T'Challa was away for 5 years shows that Wakanda frankly didn't need him. So to me that actually helps. If Wakanda was falling apart and needed him to keep things together then YES, he wouldn't leave. If they're able to function just fine without him for half a decade, then it makes that decision to leave a lot easier.

But honestly we don't know how Wakanda faired. Russos left it vague enough to the point where Coogler can pretty much say whatever he wants to tell whatever story he wants to fit the narrative he needs. Point being he can make it work, whatever direction he chooses to go.

[Ekie]

That's how you're choosing to interpret it. Chadwick didn't do that to send some kind of message. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do (and was able to do it). How does that have any bearing on what you think he would have wanted for the role of Black Panther?

All we know is according to reports, he thought he could beat colon cancer and get back into shape for the role. That's it. We don't know anything else, and pretending as if you do makes no sense. It's totally fine if you want a recast, but these justifications are starting to sound like wish fulfilment.

Just because you think you aren't being arrogant to speak for a man who's no longer here, doesn't mean you actually aren't. You didn't know him. You're not his family or friends, or even colleague. None of us were.

We don't have to be his friends to know what he wanted just by listening to his interviews. There is no right thinking person that believes he would want the character killed off with him. in his interviews he states the importance of the character to the community. What on earth makes you think that he would want the death of the character tied to his own. that he would want kids to be like well I guess we can't see black panther anymore because tChadwick died? Is that bringing positive thoughts to his memory or resentment?

[chief12d]

Oh well.

I've said it once but I'll say it again. I am being selfish in what I want. Both from a T'challa fanatic angle (I only care about T'challa) and a continuation of the story current BP story angle (I want to see where Coogler was going with his story).

If Feige or Coogler or Iger or whatever decide they don't want ot go in that direction anymore, then so be it. Good Luck, but it'll be just another MCU movie and franchise to me. I have no interest in a non-T'challa based story at this time. All you can really do is vote with your wallet. Money rules the world.

I like some of y'all too much too much to argue (it is only a discussion if people ight change their mind. No one is changing their mind right now lol). Shitty situation in a shitty year.

See yall when Khonshu catches those claws from T'challa (right Aaron... right!??)

That's where I'm at at this point lol. We're all fans here and we all have different directions we'd like this great IP to go in both onscreen and in the other mediums. We've talked about agendas and other motivations but at my core I think we all want what's best for the Black Panther franchise and more importantly, honoring the legacy of a great man like Boseman. This won't be our last time discussing this topic (we won't stop arguing until Disney makes a choice) but I'm willing to table this debate for a few weeks.

On the topic of Moon Knight vs T'Challa, I wish it was a team-up we saw more often. They're gods are from the same damn pantheon, I'd say they should be much closer. Hopefully Aaron can shed some light on the relationship between Bast and Khonshu. Speaking of which, who would you guys say are T'Challa's closest friends in the superhero community? Who would you like to see him interact with more?

[XPac]

We don't have to be his friends to know what he wanted just by listening to his interviews. There is no right thinking person that believes he would want the character killed off with him. and his interviews he states the importance of the character to the community.

I don't think he necessarily would want the character to be killed off. But I also don't necessarily think he would be against Shuri becoming BP if he were unable to contineu the role. Though I suppose we'll never know for sure.

That said, since Boseman only had a 5 picture movie deal and BP2 in theory could have been his last movie, I would assume (perhaps wrongly) that there was some discussion as to what would happen when he left the MCU. So hopefully Coogler had an idea of what Boseman wanted even if we might never know, and that will make whatever decsion he makes easier.

[Chesterfield]

That's how you're choosing to interpret it. Chadwick didn't do that to send some kind of message. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do (and was able to do it). How does that have any bearing on what you think he would have wanted for the role of Black Panther?

You might want to read what I actually wrote. I clearly stated that he was a selfless man and from MY perspective, based on how he lived his life, his selflessness (I even quoted Bible scripture!) would not have wanted T'challa NOT to continue. It's like some of you needed Chadwick to have spoon-fed you "here comes the airplane" with what his likely position on the matter of recasting the role would have been. Come on, exercise some discernment here. From what you know of the man and how he carried himself, do you honestly think he'd feel dishonored or betrayed if they recast the role? Like I said, his actions didn't just speak they practically yelled.

All we know is according to reports, he thought he could beat colon cancer and get back into shape for the role. That's it. We don't know anything else, and pretending as if you do makes no sense.

If he thought he was going to be in the role again, it is what it is but tomorrow is promised to nobody and the constant way Chadwick lived his life is a testament to the sort of character he was. If a rich man gives to charity every month and then suddenly dies, does his family continue giving to charity every month or do they stop to reconsider because he's mo longer around to declare if he would have stopped or continued and especially so because he wasn't making payments by direct debit??? What do you think the likely answer is??

It's totally fine if you want a recast, but these justifications are starting to sound like wish fulfilment.

It is wish fulfilment BUT it's also logical AND reasonable; as opposed to having my judgement clouded by overemotional hysterics. People actually believe Chadwick will be forgotten if they recast...Lord, give me strength!

Just because you think you aren't being arrogant to speak for a man who's no longer here, doesn't mean you actually aren't. You didn't know him. You're not his family or friends, or even colleague. None of us were.

Right back at you, pal.

[XPac]

That's where I'm at at this point lol. We're all fans here and we all have different directions we'd like this great IP to go in both onscreen and in the other mediums. We've talked about agendas and other motivations but at my core I think we all want what's best for the Black Panther franchise and more importantly, honoring the legacy of a great man like Boseman. This won't be our last time discussing this topic (we won't stop arguing until Disney makes a choice) but I'm willing to table this debate for a few weeks.

On the topic of Moon Knight vs T'Challa, I wish it was a team-up we saw more often. They're gods are from the same damn pantheon, I'd say they shouhe ld be much closer. Hopefully Aaron can shed some light on the relationship between Bast and Khonshu. Speaking of which, who would you guys say are T'Challa's closest friends in the superhero community? Who would you like to see him interact with more?

The biggest upside to Priest deciding that BP's gods were the egyptian gods (something at the time I had mixed feelings over) was that we got a MK/BP cross over. They were my 2 visually favorite super heroes... I always loved both their costumes. So seeing them team up was a treat. I get why it doesn't happen often since MK typically operates more on the street level... but it was still cool. And it's nice to see it happen again.

As for T'Challa's closest friends... prior to Hickmans run, I would have said Steve. But I think New Avengers made it clear that it's Reed. Obviously he's close to Storm. Those 3 are probably the only ones I would say he considers CLOSE friends. He's on good terms with a lot of other heroes... Sam, Cage, Eden, Stark, etc. But not to the degree that I think he necessarily would be willing to open himself up if he needed a friend to confide in or anything like that. Heck, I probably wouldn't have even put Reed on the list if Hickman didn't make a point of him and T'Challa being brothers.

As for who I'd like to see him interact with more... Blue Marvel is pretty high on that list. They sort of have a marvel worlds finest vibe about them. Deadpool and BP were gold... would love to see more of that. And this is a controversial one that I'm sure people will disagree with... but Namor and Doom. I liked the alliance that the 3 kings of the MU had back in the day. Priest didn't do much with it, but it was cool in theory. Would be fun to see some interaction with the 3 of them again.

[Ezyo1000]

It really doesn't have to be an either or situation. The fact that representation is treated this way adds more fuel to the fire of this seemingly never ending war of attrition between black men and black women.

That's what I have been saying since day one. Its what I was criticizing Black twitter for doing when the movie dropped. Go look on the old BP thread and you will see what I said.

Before BP dropped Black twitter: "Man I just hope that we don't see Black dysfunction and Black men vs black women, I am so tired of us being portrayed in that light and would like to see Harmony and unity"

After BP dropped some on Black twitter: "You know what would be cool for the sequel? Of T'Challa and Shuri fight and Shuri takes the mantle from him" or "What if Aneka shows up in the sequel and then they adapt Coates a nation under our feet and the Dora's rebel against T'Challa" "What if Storm shows up and Nakia gets jealous and becomes Malice because she is jealous that an old flame of T'Challas has come back"

Like, wtf? We clamor for something different, we get it and then people immediately call for Tyler perry style dysfunction. We goten and women being treated as equals, with respect, and in positions of power and instead of expanding thst and exploring it more as what Wakanda is about, they want to pit them against each other

[Ekie]

*agrees to change subject*

[Ezyo1000]

Again, I think the fact that T'Challa was away for 5 years shows that Wakanda frankly didn't need him. So to me that actually helps. If Wakanda was falling apart and needed him to keep things together then YES, he wouldn't leave. If they're able to function just fine without him for half a decade, then it makes that decision to leave a lot easier.

But honestly we don't know how Wakanda faired. Russos left it vague enough to the point where Coogler can pretty much say whatever he wants to tell whatever story he wants to fit the narrative he needs. Point being he can make it work, whatever direction he chooses to go.

We didn't see how America was doing either bird it's pretty clear they were in rough shape. The theme of the first half of the movie was that the world was in disarray. You don't lose half your people plus half your royal family and continue on as normal and everything is good. And again no, he opened Wakanda and they were immediately invaded, and though they repelled the invasion half their population got snapped and Thanos just.. appeared in their land without issue. They went up against tech and a force unknown to them and it rivalled their own. Abd you think T'Challa would just be like "alright guys I did my part peace" what kinda ass hole would he have to be to change million year old tradition and then peace out when consequences occur? Do t know who your kidding, that's not at all how T'Challa has been portrayed to act. He wouldn't make such a monumental change to his society just to leave it to his kid sister who hasn't even been geared to even think of taking the mantle. Unless the angle was to shade throw on T'Challa

[Chesterfield]

you think T'Challa would just be like "alright guys I did my part peace" what kinda ass hole would he have to be to change million year old tradition and then peace out when consequences occur?

Lol somehow someone can spin this into how it still honors Chadwick if it means T'Challa dippin' out and Shuri or whoever takes over the mantle. Never underestimate the Olympic-level mental gymnastics from nonfans.

[XPac]

We didn't see how America was doing either bird it's pretty clear they were in rough shape. The theme of the first half of the movie was that the world was in disarray. You don't lose half your people plus half your royal family and continue on as normal and everything is good. And again no, he opened Wakanda and they were immediately invaded, and though they repelled the invasion half their population got snapped and Thanos just.. appeared in their land without issue. They went up against tech and a force unknown to them and it rivalled their own. Abd you think T'Challa would just be like "alright guys I did my part peace" what kinda ass hole would he have to be to change million year old tradition and then peace out when consequences occur? Do t know who your kidding, that's not at all how T'Challa has been portrayed to act. He wouldn't make such a monumental change to his society just to leave it to his kid sister who hasn't even been geared to even think of taking the mantle. Unless the angle was to shade throw on T'Challa

If Wakanda was in bad shape then yes it would make him look bad to just leave. IF they went that route, I'd assume Wakanda would have to be in good shape to the point where he didn't need to worry about it. And again, that's up to Coogler. He can choose to decide what shape Wakanda is in and how much the snap effected it. It can be a big deal, or it can be hand waved away, like we got in Spider-Man for the most part. The next BP movie likely be a couple years after End Game, so it gives Coogler the space to do whatever the heck he needs.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't think he necessarily would want the character to be killed off. But I also don't necessarily think he would be against Shuri becoming BP if he were unable to contineu the role. Though I suppose we'll never know for sure.

That said, since Boseman only had a 5 picture movie deal and BP2 in theory could have been his last movie, I would assume (perhaps wrongly) that there was some discussion as to what would happen when he left the MCU. So hopefully Coogler had an idea of what Boseman wanted even if we might never know, and that will make whatever decsion he makes easier.

Considering he mcu was gearing towards Wakanda taking a bigger role with T'Challa being a staple like toby and Cap were, I doubt Chad was wanting T'Challa to be shelved. I don't think he was against Shuri becoming BP eventually, not after T'Challas story just started to unfold though, and again he wanted the character to outlive us so why people keep thinking that these actors are talking like they are the end all be all is beyond me

[Marvell2100]

*agrees to change subject*

Working on a couple of BP drawings. Hope to post them soon.

[XPac]

Lol somehow someone can spin this into how it still honors Chadwick if it means T'Challa dippin' out and Shuri or whoever takes over the mantle. Never underestimate the Olympic-level mental gymnastics from nonfans.

Didn't he do the exact same thing in the comic books? After a coup, he destroyed Wakanda's processed vibranium then left Shuri to clean up the mess while he went off to fight street crime in hells kitchen. For comic book fans, it's nothing we haven't seen before from him. And that was IMMEDIATELY after it happened in the comics. In the MCU Wakanda will have had years to recover.

Spider-Man far from home for the most part hand waved the issues away... the US and the rest of the world seemed okay. Wakanda in theory can be as well... or not, depending on how Coogler wants to handle it. We'll see.

[XPac]

Considering he mcu was gearing towards Wakanda taking a bigger role with T'Challa being a staple like toby and Cap were, I doubt Chad was wanting T'Challa to be shelved. I don't think he was against Shuri becoming BP eventually, not after T'Challas story just started to unfold though, and again he wanted the character to outlive us so why people keep thinking that these actors are talking like they are the end all be all is beyond me

I don't think Boseman necessarily believes he is the end all be all. I think more than anything Boseman would be fine going along with whatever Coogler vision is. If Coogler wants to recast, I'm guessing Boseman would support that. And if he feels that it's time for Shuri to take the spotlight, I likewise think Boseman would be supportive of that. Of course I have no idea if that's actually the case... but hopefully Coogler does have an idea.

Again, it all falls on what Coogler wants. I have faith he'll make it work, whatever he may do. And I assume Boseman would feel the same.