Personality-wise, how do you distinguish Wonder Woman and Superman?

[SiegePerilous02]

Because Diana was specifically molded in clay to be the perfect woman. She practiced and trained with the amazons. Clark was just born with powers and it seems to me that their bodies should hint at how their powers work and the physical regimen they have. There's a reason why people tend to draw Flash somewhat slimmer.

Depending on the continuity, Diana gains her powers from an external magical source (the goddesses) that effectively isn't that different from Clark's biology + yellow sun power up. And Amazon training which was designed by Marston to give them superhuman strength and stereotypical "Venus proportions" to explain why they were also conventionally attractive.

Wouldn't have any issue with Diana having a Ronda Rousy body type, but nobody wants to look at a Superman that resembles that picture of David Schwimmer

[Alpha]

Depending on the continuity, Diana gains her powers from an external magical source (the goddesses) that effectively isn't that different from Clark's biology + yellow sun power up. And Amazon training which was designed by Marston to give them superhuman strength and stereotypical "Venus proportions" to explain why they were also conventionally attractive.

Wouldn't have any issue with Diana having a Ronda Rousy body type, but nobody wants to look at a Superman that resembles that picture of David Schwimmer

Really? In older comics superheroes like Superman weren't drawn with all this definition that we have now and I think Superman looked just fine.
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In All Star Superman he was also smoother
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[Alpha]

And then you have this fan art that portrays a more modest version that I really like

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[Alpha]

I also just think it's harder to believe Clark Kent wouldn't stand out if he was this massive guy that Superman is always portrayed as. It's not like you find people of that size everywhere you go.

[Lightning Rider]

I liked the earlier attempts to try and think of scenarios in which the both would react very differently.

I think the lasso of truth is almost a cheat in the sense that Diana can avoid a lot of difficult moral dilemmas by eliciting the truth from actors with ambiguous intentions. So the situation with Hawkgril in JLU could largely be resolved by putting the lasso around her and asking if she could be trusted. Though I guess asking for that in itself implies a lack of trust. Does being such a staunch believer in truth mean that she takes betrayal doubly seriously? I could see her asking her to take the lasso test as a show of good faith. While Clark would probably try to redeem her the good old fashioned way and just give her a second chance, without requiring more (though not without watching her closely).

In fact, I see Diana's use of the lasso as a liberty that Clark wouldn't be entirely comfortable with. Sure he infringes on people's privacy from time to time, but he probably sees the lasso as borderline coercion, an extrajudicial inducement of confession. But Diana sees the truth as a universal good that can't ever be bad.

That said, I can also see Superman going in guns blazes against someone he honestly and reasonably thinks betrayed him, puffing out his chest and asking direct questions, whereas Diana would be more patient at the outset.

I guess I'm arriving at the conclusion that Superman may have more of a temper, but generally respects institutions. Diana is more clear-headed, but has stricter morals that operate outside of man-made institutions.

The Ozymandias situation is a tricky one. I could see her wanting to spill the beans right away, but then compromising to let the truth be known after 10 years or something like that, if humanity can keep the peace.

Let me think of some others:

If the gods, particularly the more benevolent ones, came down and gave Diana a controversial mandate, I think she would instinctively follow their lead, so long as she thought it was with good intentions. She might defy them later, but Clark would be skeptical from the jump, if their demands were significant. For example, if Athena & Aphrodite asked Diana to preach and open temples in communities that had lost their way, in exchange for blessings, she might do it. Whereas Superman would be like, "1. I don't owe these 'gods' any special reverence, and 2. this is going to seriously rock the boat and make humanity dependent in a way I don't like."

I also think that if it came down to an actual war with humanity, in which both sides committed blunders and made mistakes, Diana would side with her Amazon sisters and fight to protect them. Whereas Clark would side with humans if Kryptonians could only exist by inevitably replacing humans. "Krypton had its chance", type of deal. Maybe my perception is colored by the fact that the Amazons are more uniformly good, but it also has to do with their actual relationships to their respective civilizations.

[Alpha]

This is where what I desire from the characters isn't the same thing as what they have been portrayed as for the most part. In Marston's original stories there was all that stuff about bondage, domination, power and control. It was both about the idea that the best way to change the world was through peacefull mental domination, and that there was a certain power under the submition of another but with one's own consent. The Lasso is about both of these things. There are problematic elements of the Amazons that I woud keep, but these two wouldn't be it. That said, we can't just remove this and leave that spot empty, nor can we replace it with anything. That's why to me Wonder Woman should replace it with this idea of attachment. She is someone who thinks we are all tied up to each other and what she believes in is that we can't ignore each other. She chooses to attach herself to others so she can force them to see the ropes that bind us. So when she sees someone who wants to hurt others, she will seek to subdue them as an extension of showing them the strings. I don't mean that she will just emprison them and that's it. She will keep trying to talk to them and convince them to see the light.

I think she would tell the truth about Ozymandias because she believes problems have to be directly adressed rather than swept under the rug, or manipulated by other means. It's both about truth and trust.

As far as Hawkgirl, I don't think the question is if Hawkgirl really wants to be loyal to the Justice League from now on, it's about how can we be sure that she will choose us when her loyalties are tested again. She could very well believe she is loyal to the JL, but later on end up being convinced to betray them. I think Diana would test Hawkgirl a lot more than just with the lasso. Superman carries this big weight on hs shoulders which is the fact that any decision he makes could have dire consequences (something he feels even more so do to all of his mighty powers). When he joins the Justice League I think it is with the belief that he could be even more effective AND PUT IN CHECK by working with others. But he has to trust these individuals, and tho he might start to trust them very quickly, once it is broken I think he would feel it's too dangerous to risk. He can still forgive people, but trusting them to change the world for the better is a difficult thing to regain.

I don't know how Diana would react if the Amazons started a war with humanity and she felt the amazons were in the wrong. If she thought they were in the right, she might stay on their side, yes. And yeah Superman wouldn't put kryptonians above humanity.

[hareluyafan1]

By the way, that cover is one of the worst comparisons you could give of Superman and Diana. It really shows how inappropriate her previous suit was and how they make Superman look all beefy for no reason, and Diana just looks like a woman that goes to the gym to have thick thighs. I mean cmon, she should be more muscular than Superman. I don't even think Superman should have abs. He shouldn't be scrawny but not particularly ripped either. I think David Schwimmer had the ideal build. It feels like someone who probably gives you a good hug, but isn't exactly trying to book any modelling gigs or bodybuilding awards

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And I feel like Diana should be buit somewhere between Betty Gilpin (not the chest, just the wide shoulders) and Ronda Rousey. Which is a unique body type in women.

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No offence but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that WW's suit in that pic is "inappropriate." Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p2u...G-jcA&index=11

I agree about Superman. That's part of the reason Christopher Reeve was so perfect in the role. He looked strong but without looking like a bodybuilder or a wrestler.

[SiegePerilous02]

Really? In older comics superheroes like Superman weren't drawn with all this definition that we have now and I think Superman looked just fine.
rsz_20000355822.jpg

In All Star Superman he was also smoother
51vWeSmZcOL._SX318_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Yeah but artistic styles have changed since then. Even with All-Star it can be attributed to Quietly's style, in-universe his posture and clothes hide his physique but he's just a really good actor and people notice his actual body when he stops pretending. Cat Grant notes, among other things, he's got a toned ass.

I also just think it's harder to believe Clark Kent wouldn't stand out if he was this massive guy that Superman is always portrayed as. It's not like you find people of that size everywhere you go.

The DC universe isn't real life though. Realistically you won't find anyone like that, but most people look like Superman. everyone looks like a beautiful model unless it is a plot point.

the beefcake appeal of male superheroes is a big draw, and Superman's one of the biggest. doesn't make sense to downplay it now for misguided realism

[manwhohaseverything]

I also just think it's harder to believe Clark Kent wouldn't stand out if he was this massive guy that Superman is always portrayed as. It's not like you find people of that size everywhere you go.

Clark kent with glasses is a skinny,lanky,clumsy guy with glasses and what not.Superman has precise muscle control.He can gain and reduce muscle mass to an extend.He hides whatever is left with baggy clothes which is fine.

the beefcake appeal of male superheroes is a big draw, and Superman's one of the biggest. doesn't make sense to downplay it now for misguided realism

Not much of draw.If you aren't working out and flexing it.You lose the inspirational part and power fantasy aspect.

[Alpha]

No offence but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that WW's suit in that pic is "inappropriate." Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p2u...G-jcA&index=11

I agree about Superman. That's part of the reason Christopher Reeve was so perfect in the role. He looked strong but without looking like a bodybuilder or a wrestler.

I'm glad you agree about Superman. As far as Wonder Woman, I've watched the first 6 minutes of that video and I think I understand his argument so I will respond now. Afterwards I will watch the rest of the video and if my opinion changes I'll add a comment below.

What that youtuber neglets to tell you is that Marston's Wonder Woman was full of sensual kinks which were part of the values ofnthe character. I think Grant Morrison's Earth One is a just modernization of all those kinks, and It's one heck of a misstep. I think most people agree that Wonder Woman should lose the kink factor and simply stand for values analog to those Marston defined.

Plus our culture is much more used to sexuality than it was in the 40s. It's still seen as inappropriate in a professional setting, but otherwise women wear even more revealing clothes in the street than what you see of Wonder Woman. At any case, look at the Jim Lee cover. Her breasts are nearly popping out of the suit.

The perfect suit for her is this one on the left. Only changes I would make are removing the should armor and give her a long cloth skirt similar to her original appearance in 1940.

[Alpha]

Clark kent with glasses is a skinny,lanky,clumsy guy with glasses and what not.Superman has precise muscle control.He can gain and reduce muscle mass to an extend.He hides whatever is left with baggy clothes which is fine.

Not much of draw.If you aren't working out and flexing it.You lose the inspirational part and power fantasy aspect.

I'm not just talking about definition, I mean even size. The common Superman is absolutely huge. Look at Henry Cavill in a shirt, it's impossible not to notice his unusual size.

[Alpha]

Yeah but artistic styles have changed since then. Even with All-Star it can be attributed to Quietly's style, in-universe his posture and clothes hide his physique but he's just a really good actor and people notice his actual body when he stops pretending. Cat Grant notes, among other things, he's got a toned ass.



The DC universe isn't real life though. Realistically you won't find anyone like that, but most people look like Superman. everyone looks like a beautiful model unless it is a plot point.

the beefcake appeal of male superheroes is a big draw, and Superman's one of the biggest. doesn't make sense to downplay it now for misguided realism

I know they have changee but I showed modern artists that portrayed him in a much less extreme way and I think he looked fine. What did you think of how he looked in the fan art I posted?

[Agent Z]

Because Diana was specifically molded in clay to be the perfect woman.

The idea of the "perfect woman" doesn't look like what you suggested Diana should look like.

She practiced and trained with the amazons.

Who have been shown to have a variety of body types.

Clark was just born with powers and it seems to me that their bodies should hint at how their powers work and the physical regimen they have.

Clark has been doin menial labor since he was raised on a farm and his strength often exceeds that of Diana's.

[Alpha]

The idea of the "perfect woman" doesn't look like what you suggested Diana should look like.



Who have been shown to have a variety of body types.




Clark has been doin menial labor since he was raised on a farm and his strength often exceeds that of Diana's.

Well ok, I guess eveybody has different ideas of what a strong woman looks like, I think wide shoulders and meaty arms and legs is a good measure. But what is your ideal shape of a strong woman?

And are you seriously comparing menial labor to a woman literally trainning for combat (and specially wrestling like I prefer Diana's specialty to be). Her trainning would be specifically guided to practicing feats of strength in combat useful ways. Superman would only partially and accidentally also get a little pump from working on the farm, and it's not even like most of the stuff he did would be designed to test his limits so that he could build muscle.

[Agent Z]

I also just think it's harder to believe Clark Kent wouldn't stand out if he was this massive guy that Superman is always portrayed as. It's not like you find people of that size everywhere you go.

If we are being realistic, a pair of glasses wouldn't be enough to fool people no matter what Clark's body looks like.