Thor Odinson, God of Thunder Appreciation 2019

[GodThor]

I gave an entire blow by blow rundown of every Mangog appearance after rereading and analysing all of those appearances, many months ago on these forums, when I was speculating how he would be used by Aaron. I don't need to read a bio that will inevitably not represent what actually happened in the books.

Odin was scared and he sent Thor away expecting to die himself.

either you or me lack reading comprehension.

I prefer we see it differently.

I don't understand why you feel the need to hate read the books. You are clearly reading them all, but then taking every single instance in its worst possible light or interpretation and then complaining about that very narrow interpretation as if it is what Aaron himself intended. Anyone would think he was only writing to annoy you. I recognise the things you are referring to but I don't recognise any of the spin you put on each thing. Its all a castle of cards built upon you not liking the book. Just stop reading them. They are clearly not for you.

if you saw some of my replies in previous two to four pages, I didn't read WotR or Thor comics for a while now but I know how things are going and yet Aaron still surprises me.

besides, like you said, we have different ways of seeing this.

you might see this as a masterpiece and how it should have been but me, I dare say a lot of us here, see it completely differently.

I apologize if I sounded antagonistic.

it's been hard for me for a while on work and so.

[GodThor]

after meandering through this long long arc it's time he gets down to restoring the noble godly aspect that thor has been missing for a long time now and firmly establish him in his old place or leave him in a new place where he has gone beyond godhood and evolved into something entirely grand and different like the Olympic Pantheon recently seem to have become something entirely new after avengers no road home.

speaking of Greek Gods, what did they become anyway???

I'll die out of laughter if they became some Cosmic Entities.

[JKtheMac]

either you or me lack reading comprehension.

I prefer we see it differently.

I cross posted the page where it is revealed. here

[JKtheMac]

I would like for this arc to end in a similar way to stories that have deconstructed what it means to be a hero, to live this life, with Spider-Man, Batman, Daredevil, Tony Stark, etc. This hero is brought to a low point, 'deconstructed' and the 'parts' that make them a hero are examined to determine which things matter and which things do not.

Take away Starks money (or sobriety, or reputation), or break Batman's back (or kill his ward, or undo his work by freeing and uniting his various rogues), they come back.

Well I believe you will get this. Thor will indeed be worthy and powerful again by the time Aaron finishes. Didn't we have this 'deconstruction' discussion before? What you are describing by stripping down or de-powering a character is not deconstruction. It is how some people have used it but they are getting their definitions twisted.

The way you seem to be using the term you seem to be suggesting that to write a story with a deconstructionist approach, (which itself is a little tautological because deconstruction is essentially a form of literary criticism but it can and is done sometimes) one would need to de-power or strip down a character. That wouldn't be necessary at all.

Aaron was using an approach similar to this with Jane as Thor and he wasn't stripping her down or de-powering her. True, the only reason Aaron made Thor unworthy was to examine his worthiness. He has done this in a number of ways through the use of Jane and to a lesser extent through his use of Odin, Freyja, Cul etc. Even occasionally Thor Odinson, but to a lesser extent. But teasing individual things out into separate issues in order to examine them doesn't require de-powering or breaking down a character. One simply writes a series of stories that allows us to explore and compare each issue individually. All-New Wolverine did this with Laura to some extent. He didn't de-power her. Neither did he use her to examine who Wolverine was, so it isn't the same as how Aaron treated Thor.

I have said it before but all Aaron is doing is repeating Knightfall with different characters for different reasons, so I see the comparison there. Was Knightfall a deconstruction? I am not convinced it was, but yes it was doing what you describe, even if we disagree on what that thing is called.

Importantly Azrael is nothing like Jane. The comparison is actually quite thin because Azrael very quickly takes things in a very different direction, more akin to the Superior Spider-Man approach (which I preferred and even contained a commentary on Batman so two for one!).

Jane as Thor acts very much like Thor. There is a reason she doesn't overly struggle with the mantle or try and twist it to her ends. Aaron wants the mantle intact and usable for his comparisons and his contrasts. Jane is the lens through which we see who Thor is. This is why I used to insist that Jane as Thor was Thor. I didn't really perceive a big difference. I was still getting my Thor fix, he just happened to look more attractive.

I would like for this story to move along, and show what makes Thor a hero, not what makes him 'worthy' of the hammer, because the hammer isn't what defines him (I used to read 'young Thor' stories back in the day when he used a sword, after all), but what makes him worthy of reading about.

We need to be cautious here, because the reason behind the story is whatever Aaron wants to tell us. It might be about that. It might not. There is one good reason to suggest it won't be about just doing the right thing. Thor didn't become unworthy by doing the wrong thing.

[Digifiend]

A team of contestants on BBC Two's Eggheads was just asked who Thor's wife was in Norse mythology. It was multiple choice, and I immediately knew the answer was Sif, since she was one of comic book Thor's love interests. The contestants didn't know it and got it wrong.

[JKtheMac]

A team of contestants on BBC Two's Eggheads was just asked who Thor's wife was in Norse mythology. It was multiple choice, and I immediately knew the answer was Sif, since she was one of comic book Thor's love interests. The contestants didn't know it and got it wrong.

Yay! Who will beat them? We will.

[JKtheMac]

if you saw some of my replies in previous two to four pages, I didn't read WotR or Thor comics for a while now but I know how things are going and yet Aaron still surprises me.

besides, like you said, we have different ways of seeing this.

you might see this as a masterpiece and how it should have been but me, I dare say a lot of us here, see it completely differently.

The thing I don't understand is how negatively you choose to perceive things. Take the single example "Odin was never a drunkard". You have brought that to the table. Aaron is showing Odin drunk after an exhausting day and in that moment he is also referring to other times he has been drunk. At no time does Aaron suggest he is an alcoholic or is always drunk. You have chosen to interpret it that way. I grant you he is suggesting Odin has sometimes got drunk for the wrong reasons. I imagine Aaron might even be suggesting that he himself has gotten drunk for the wrong reasons. I don't think Aaron is judging him. I think he is sympathising and perhaps empathising with him. He made me sympathise with him.

I apologize if I sounded antagonistic.

it's been hard for me for a while on work and so.

That's fine. I am equally snarky. It comes with the territory. We at least share a passion over Thor, even if we dont agree on how he should be portrayed.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Not deflection. I am saying that is itself a straw-man argument. IMO it is a ridiculous comparison to make and then to base assumptions on. There is nothing racist about it so it is not a comparison that needs an answer. Nobody will be as offended by the way Aaron has approached his exploration as someone that was directly offended by a racial or ethnic slur. I see zero evidence he is criticising any real people in any way whatsoever and in order to actually claim he has you would need to demonstrate it, not build straw-man comparisons with racism.

I'll address the rest later, but yes it's a deflection, because you won't acknowledge a pretty obvious. Making a disparaging comment about an entire race of people, as Gorr did with regards to Gods and was enforced by Nick Fury, is racism. It's not rocket science.

It's not worthy of the same outrage as actual racism directed at actual groups of real people, no. But racism it remains. In terms of impact, it barely reaches abstract.

[Frontier]

A team of contestants on BBC Two's Eggheads was just asked who Thor's wife was in Norse mythology. It was multiple choice, and I immediately knew the answer was Sif, since she was one of comic book Thor's love interests. The contestants didn't know it and got it wrong.

I wish Sif did more .

The thing I don't understand is how negatively you choose to perceive things. Take the single example "Odin was never a drunkard". You have brought that to the table. Aaron is showing Odin drunk after an exhausting day and in that moment he is also referring to other times he has been drunk. At no time does Aaron suggest he is an alcoholic or is always drunk. You have chosen to interpret it that way. I grant you he is suggesting Odin has sometimes got drunk for the wrong reasons. I imagine Aaron might even be suggesting that he himself has gotten drunk for the wrong reasons. I don't think Aaron is judging him. I think he is sympathising and perhaps empathising with him. He made me sympathise with him.

Aaron also seems to like writing characters who drink a lot, which is probably one of the reasons we can't go one issue without "mead" getting mentioned at least once.

[GodThor]

The thing I don't understand is how negatively you choose to perceive things. Take the single example "Odin was never a drunkard". You have brought that to the table. Aaron is showing Odin drunk after an exhausting day and in that moment he is also referring to other times he has been drunk. At no time does Aaron suggest he is an alcoholic or is always drunk.

except that's not what Aaron is trying to portray.

You have chosen to interpret it that way. I grant you he is suggesting Odin has sometimes got drunk for the wrong reasons. I imagine Aaron might even be suggesting that he himself has gotten drunk for the wrong reasons. I don't think Aaron is judging him. I think he is sympathising and perhaps empathising with him. He made me sympathise with him.

and THAT'S why I don't like this Odin.

some stuff you simply don't do with some characters because it doesn't fit.

for example:

in World of Warcraft franchise (it's a game with huge lore), you have immortal demons and two most powerful demonlords, Archimonde and Kil'jaeden.

Archimonde
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...the_Legion.jpg

Kil'jaeden
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...en_Sunwell.jpg

those two are the most badass demonlords you can find and have a lot of lore around them.

they are fierce and brutal, they destroyed countless of worlds with no mercy for over +25,000 years.

then came a day when you kill them both.

the worst death was Kil'jaeden.

when you are about to kill him he suddenly acts out of character and becomes too human.

not only that but even at the beginning of his downfall, he was completely out of character.

so we had a freaking demonlord who is almost, if not, on par with Archimonde in pure power, and is supposed to be one of those characters who are absolutely badass with no relatable qualities but then SUDDENLY they completely screw up his character for idiotic reasons.

Or Illidan Stormrage from the same game.

Illidan Stormrage
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...e_Betrayer.jpg

An incredible antihero character during Warcraft 3 and in the books who everyone loved. He would go to extreme lengths to destroy demons for good, even going so far to become a demon himself. He was power hungry as well.

He conquered the entire demon world for himself.

but then came World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade and they turned him into a crazy tyrant where you had to kill him.

I, personally, never found Odin to be relatable that much. in my eyes, he is not that type of a character with who I want to sympathise with. back in a day, Odin was close to a God you could get in that time. I found him harsh but cool, badass and powerful.

I no longer see any trait of that Odin at all.

you might like him now because he is too human but I don't and neither do a lot of people.

[Thor-El]

Got my Thor #13 Alex Ross variant today. Would have loved to have this one as a poster but is not available so a comic it is.

[Daniel22]

Me, personally, I genuinely love Waid's work. I think he would be really fun and cool on Thor .

Basically I think newer writers would probably continue what Aaron's doing because that's been the predominant "voice" on Thor for the past few years and is what probably quite a few people have been exposed to. Might be a newer writer is more concerned with building off of that then would be interested in Thor's previous history or what he was like before Aaron.

But it probably depends on the writer.

Oh ok, gotcha, thanks. Yeah I can see how that could be the case. I typically think of newer writers as having tons of fresh ideas and pent up stories they are ready to tell but that's not always the case. It might just be a job to them or an assignment they aren't bursting with ideas for and might lean on recent interpretations a little more.

Agreed it will largely depend on the writer. If it's someone like Cates or Rosenberg they will likely have some crazy, off the wall new idea and direction. Someone like Narcisse or Whitley have shown a more traditional line of writing and thinking so we'd likely get that.

Ewing isn't exactly new but he loves digging into the past and using lost and forgotten continuity. I think he'd probably go back to Odinson's roots. Do you like Ewing? Would you like him on the new book?

[Frontier]

]Agreed it will largely depend on the writer. If it's someone like Cates or Rosenberg they will likely have some crazy, off the wall new idea and direction. Someone like Narcisse or Whitley have shown a more traditional line of writing and thinking so we'd likely get that.

Cates and Rosenberg are probably more likely then Narcisse or Whitley. Cates especially since he's an established Thor fan.

Ewing isn't exactly new but he loves digging into the past and using lost and forgotten continuity. I think he'd probably go back to Odinson's roots. Do you like Ewing? Would you like him on the new book?

I love Ewing. I think he could have a ball as the main Thor writer.

[Wall-Crawler]

CBR vs JKTheMac

[The Cool Thatguy]

What? welcome to a country that gets its definitions wrong? No idea what that even means.

You do understand that you guys don't have a monopoly on how words are defined, yes?

Sorry when did this happen? And even when you have pointed this strange unrecognisable moment out, how exactly has that got anything to do with virtue signalling. You don't just get to define the term on your own.

By strange and unrecognizable, you mean virtually every flashback to young Thor?

Thor:Gates of Valhalla. And again, it's Thor only doing good to lift the hammer, not to do good because it is good.