X-Men #7 SPOILERS

[Anduinel]

They make people with disabilities feel lesser an donly can be complete as mutants. That is very wrong and ableist


That was 30 years ago. now they can write the gay chaarcters as they want

today can only be called queerbait, there isn't comics code authority anymore

Bro, writers can't even marry off het characters whenever they want without editorial sign off, so I don't know where you're pulling that one from. The writers don't own these characters, the House of Mouse isn't nearly as progressive as you assume, and writers do not have the freedom to do as they please regarding story content.

[spirit2011]

Spirit, I'm normally with you fam, but BEING HUMAN IS NOT A DISABILITY!!!! Don't let the cult drive you crazy.

Thanks for the tip ahahah but it is a disabilitie for the krakoans. I don't think like that

[FUBAR007]

As long as the process is not mandatory, I don't see any problems.

Although I cannot blame anyone for criticizing traditions and culture different from their own, it only shows how arrogant we are. There are several human cultures that challenge what many consider appropriate, which has even spawned holy wars, yet it is not as if we could force countries or people to be Christians or Muslims by ignoring free will. In that sense Krakoa is free to have its own traditions, culture or religion as long as the choice is allowed. Besides, it's not as if Krakoa is unbeatable, inevitably mutants are going to have to fight to maintain their paradise.

In some cultures, child marriage is normal. Are you okay with that?

In some cultures, women are expected to commit suicide if raped, and some do. Are you okay with that?

Historically, cultures practiced human sacrifice, usually but not always involuntary. Are you okay with that?

"Consent" isn't a moral blank check.

[Ferro]

but at the same time, these depowered mutants may not even want their abilities back, and being a mutant now entails a lot more than just powers, its very over the top but they can afford it with their imortality, but It does assure the person who choses this is completly sure of their desire

[spirit2011]

Bro, writers can't even marry off het characters whenever they want without editorial sign off, so I don't know where you're pulling that one from. The writers don't own these characters, the House of Mouse isn't nearly as progressive as you assume, and writers do not have the freedom to do as they please regarding story content.

marry is a ultimate goal that is hard to undo, but dating around is very normal.

I know they don't own, but they can write the gay characters or even create new gay chaarcters like Hickman did on his Avengers's run.

[JasmineW]

Haven't read the thread but I wanted to post my thoughts first. Brilliant issue, it was compelling and disturbing at the same time. I was equally weirded out and impressed.

Definitely, each issue of X-Men has such great re-readability (is this English correct?), just like Grant Morrison's issues.

[Veitha]

The thing is, with how simple it is the resurrection in Krakoa, more than dying is practically like those operations in which they have to stop your heart for a few minutes while connecting you to a machine.

Exactly! Some people are looking at this from a ...human perspective. They can't really die and they can be healed from traumatic experiences, so they're going to approach it differently. It's going to be more of a rite of passage to them.

Also, it is not mandatory and it was created to avoid mass suicides.

[Veitha]

but at the same time, these depowered mutants may not even want their abilities back, and being a mutant now entails a lot more than just powers, its very over the top but they can afford it with their imortality, but It does assure the person who choses this is completly sure of their desire

It's going to be hard and painful when they inevitably lose the immortality at the end of the run.

[spirit2011]

Kinda funny how they constantly complain about humans here, humans there, even though they are still entirely human in personality, mentality, cultural design and goals. They never threw it off and never will be able to. And here they engage in maybe the most cliché presentation of tribal rituals and behaviour a writer can think of. All while not noticing the irony. What might be an attempt to distance themself from their hated idea of "humans" makes them even more noticable human.

or maybe the writer didn't noticed it. I see a lot of problematic things on his approach of culture, humanism, mutantkind and societies.

That's the thing that likely makes this whole new setup not work for me and makes me think it's set up to implode violently by Hickman's design. Which is why i can't get engaged in these series, since i'm just sitting back and trying to figure out what will ultimately lit the fuse to the metric tons of gunpowder underneath the whole Krakoa era.
The whole humans vs mutants thing just doesn't work because mutants are humans too and will never be anything else, besides having build in super powers. Any attempt at distancing them from an idea of "humanity" is bound to fail because otherwise readers can't understand them. So all that is happening is them being slightly moved away from the civilization norms and laws the reader is used, while never fully leaving the sphere of base human behaviour.

What's funny is that even the blue humans (Homo Nova something) from Moira's sixth life are guilty of this. Having all the super powers they can dream of but ultimately displaying the most base human social structure, failings and ultimately fears.

On the other hand i guess that's why this setup is so engaging to many readers, because it presents the whole "super powered human race" as attempt at civilization building.

Yeah like religion is a human institution. If you want to creat new things, you have to think different

[Knives]

It is so interesting to see everyone judging and making their criticisms as if culture, religion or human traditions were so different.

The reason for not accepting a simple process is easy to understand Krakoa needs the mutants to be prepared for battle in the future. They need to cultivate a sense of patriotism and union with their new home otherwise the mutants will simply understand that the gifts from Krakoa do not have a price to be charged or a counter obligation on the part of their population.

No paradise is reached without sacrifices.

[FUBAR007]

No paradise is reached without sacrifices.

More edgelord posturing.

[JasmineW]

It's going to be hard and painful when they inevitably lose the immortality at the end of the run.

Veitha, what do you mean?

[spirit2011]

It is so interesting to see everyone judging and making their criticisms as if culture, religion or human traditions were so different.

The reason for not accepting a simple process is easy to understand Krakoa needs the mutants to be prepared for battle in the future. They need to cultivate a sense of patriotism and union with their new home otherwise the mutants will simply understand that the gifts from Krakoa do not have a price to be charged or a counter obligation on the part of their population.

No paradise is reached without sacrifices.

they can train mutants to be prepared for battle

[Ferro]

like apocalypse also said, suicide is a surrender, its puting your fate in someone else hands and hoping you return better, melody went down fighting and made it clear she was prepared to live as a mutant

[xiyon]

Kinda funny how they constantly complain about humans here, humans there, even though they are still entirely human in personality, mentality, cultural design and goals. They never threw it off and never will be able to. And here they engage in maybe the most cliché presentation of tribal rituals and behaviour a writer can think of. All while not noticing the irony. What might be an attempt to distance themself from their hated idea of "humans" makes them even more noticable human.

That's the thing that likely makes this whole new setup not work for me and makes me think it's set up to implode violently by Hickman's design. Which is why i can't get engaged in these series, since i'm just sitting back and trying to figure out what will ultimately lit the fuse to the metric tons of gunpowder underneath the whole Krakoa era.
The whole humans vs mutants thing just doesn't work because mutants are humans too and will never be anything else, besides having build in super powers. Any attempt at distancing them from an idea of "humanity" is bound to fail because otherwise readers can't understand them. So all that is happening is them being slightly moved away from the civilization norms and laws the reader is used, while never fully leaving the sphere of base human behaviour.

What's funny is that even the blue humans (Homo Nova something) from Moira's sixth life are guilty of this. Having all the super powers they can dream of but ultimately displaying the most base human social structure, failings and ultimately fears.

On the other hand i guess that's why this setup is so engaging to many readers, because it presents the whole "super powered human race" as attempt at civilization building.

Amen. What I find even more out of character is how the X-Men allowed this to happen-- which is precisely why Hickman chose to start in medias res, I'm sure. He wants to tell his story about a species with its own cultural norms; unfortunately for me, he decided to use an established franchise. But, eh, to each their own.

I'm just sat here shaking my head at all the support for the Krakoan's isolationism-ahem, "MUTANT CULTURE!!!!" juxtaposed by my memories of the criticisms against Utopia...