Controversial Superman Opinions

[DochaDocha]

Do you like Superman and Lex both being from Smallville and knowing each other?

Eh, don't care for it. For one, it's kind of lazy. It's starting with an adult Superman and wanting to explore his youth, but then instead of creating a new, specific villain for young Superboy they just took Superman's main one and brought him into his past. The other reason I don't care for it is it defeats the purpose of Smallville being, well, small. You're saying Earth's two most extraordinary people both happened to come from the same small town in the middle of nowhere? Superman and Lex meeting in Metropolis works because Metropolis is a crossroads. Smallville, IMO, shouldn't be that.

I'll concede that there's value in making it so Superman and Lex have a rivalry going back a long way, but not like this under the modern context.

And don't get me started on stories how young Bruce and Clark Kent were also friends...

[exile001]

Eh, don't care for it. For one, it's kind of lazy. It's starting with an adult Superman and wanting to explore his youth, but then instead of creating a new, specific villain for young Superboy they just took Superman's main one and brought him into his past. The other reason I don't care for it is it defeats the purpose of Smallville being, well, small. You're saying Earth's two most extraordinary people both happened to come from the same small town in the middle of nowhere? Superman and Lex meeting in Metropolis works because Metropolis is a crossroads. Smallville, IMO, shouldn't be that.

I'll concede that there's value in making it so Superman and Lex have a rivalry going back a long way, but not like this under the modern context.

And don't get me started on stories how young Bruce and Clark Kent were also friends...

"...From Smallville!!!" is almost as tired as "...From Krypton!!!"

At what point does EVERYTHING coming from two set points become far too contrived? It was easy writing back then, as the point was to give Clark a self-contained adventure for little kids. It didn't matter that they were doing the same thing over and over as the readers of the time lapped it up and grew out of reading.

Times change and now that these books/characters are more serialised and aimed at an older audience it becomes far more obvious, and that's the point that narrative cohesion is questioned and the whole thing unravels.

I will say the same for Perry and Lex being childhood friends (this also ages Luthor too much).

[Stanlos]

So you're telling me that black characters aren't allowed to have scary designs or be ugly. They can only be shown in a positive light.
That sounds incredibly racist.

"

Prejudiced, not racist. To be that, the offender would need to be a member of the uberpowered group engaged in systematic oppression.

[superduperman]

Hmmmmm. I think I missed that when getting the Supergirl trades. Was this between the Loeb and N52 series? Or around the Future State stuff?

This is actually an out of continuity story that came out around 2017. It's kind of part of the YA line.

[superduperman]

Do you like Superman and Lex both being from Smallville and knowing each other?

I think it's kind of dumb. It was kind of a stretch in the pre-Crisis era but at least there was a semi-logical explanation back then. Superboy was responsible for him becoming a villain. In Johns origin it makes no sense whatsoever. They both just happened to be from the same town with no real connection to one another.

[The Frog Bros]

Do you like Superman and Lex both being from Smallville and knowing each other?

Eh, don't care for it. For one, it's kind of lazy. It's starting with an adult Superman and wanting to explore his youth, but then instead of creating a new, specific villain for young Superboy they just took Superman's main one and brought him into his past. The other reason I don't care for it is it defeats the purpose of Smallville being, well, small. You're saying Earth's two most extraordinary people both happened to come from the same small town in the middle of nowhere? Superman and Lex meeting in Metropolis works because Metropolis is a crossroads. Smallville, IMO, shouldn't be that.

I'll concede that there's value in making it so Superman and Lex have a rivalry going back a long way, but not like this under the modern context.

And don't get me started on stories how young Bruce and Clark Kent were also friends...

I think it's kind of dumb. It was kind of a stretch in the pre-Crisis era but at least there was a semi-logical explanation back then. Superboy was responsible for him becoming a villain. In Johns origin it makes no sense whatsoever. They both just happened to be from the same town with no real connection to one another.

It really does shrink the universe in the big picture (funny how additional back story can sometimes have that effect). I prefer them meeting up for first time in Metropolis myself, just think it works better plot wise. I find it too coincidental otherwise, suspension of disbelief notwithstanding.

[superduperman]

It really does shrink the universe in the big picture (funny how additional back story can sometimes have that effect). I prefer them meeting up for first time in Metropolis myself, just think it works better plot wise. I find it too coincidental otherwise, suspension of disbelief notwithstanding.

Star Wars, anyone?

[The Frog Bros]

Star Wars, anyone?

Funny, I was thinking just that as I posted.

[DochaDocha]

Star Wars, anyone?

Big collective sigh from the crowd...

[ducklord]

I have some questions about your thoughts on the villains. Do you guys like Brainiac being the cause of Krypton's demise?

Do you like Superman and Lex both being from Smallville and knowing each other?

1) Being a grumpy old traditionalist, I prefer that Krypton's demise be a natural disaster that could've been avoided but for the hubris of the Science Council. If anything, this theme resonates even more than it did in the 50's (sadly).

2) As for young Lex and young Clark knowing each other, well, I have a confession - outside of the Legion, I never really cottoned to Superboy. While a lot of the stories of "Superman when he was a boy" were imaginative, too many of them are just too silly, even for me. Also, cramming characters like Myzptlk and Luthor into Clark's pre-Metropolis days seems, I dunno, like a bit of a cheat. Even without the burden of young Clark donning a Superboy costume, the universe just feels *smaller* if he's interacting with his future nemesis years before Metropolis (it also makes Lex look dumber, too). So, yeah, as much as I'd like a return to "mad science criminal" Lex, I much prefer that the two of them never meet (except maybe in passing) before they're adults.

[Ascended]

1) Being a grumpy old traditionalist, I prefer that Krypton's demise be a natural disaster that could've been avoided but for the hubris of the Science Council. If anything, this theme resonates even more than it did in the 50's (sadly).

Agreed.

2) As for young Lex and young Clark knowing each other, well, I have a confession - outside of the Legion, I never really cottoned to Superboy.

>gasp!< Philistine!

BUT

cramming characters like Myzptlk and Luthor into Clark's pre-Metropolis days seems, I dunno, like a bit of a cheat. Even without the burden of young Clark donning a Superboy costume, the universe just feels *smaller* if he's interacting with his future nemesis years before Metropolis (it also makes Lex look dumber, too). So, yeah, as much as I'd like a return to "mad science criminal" Lex, I much prefer that the two of them never meet (except maybe in passing) before they're adults.

I agree completely with this. I like my Clark to have a career as Superboy, but not as originally published. I prefer something without the Metropolis supporting cast, villains, or other nascent heroes showing up, and Clark not being a public figure or wearing the Superman costume.

But I think it's actually important to Clark as a character and the story of Superman's debut, that he already have a lot of experience before the world sees him for the first time. Clark doesn't become a superhero when he puts the costume on, he's just finally letting everyone know he's on the job.

[superduperman]

I prefer my superboy more Smallville and less Legion. S&L had an interesting idea where he wore a black clad costume sort of like Batman so no one could see his face. I prefer the helping in secret method.

[Stanlos]

Do people like the Lex Luthor clone contribution for Con El?

[Jon Clark]

I prefer my superboy more Smallville and less Legion. S&L had an interesting idea where he wore a black clad costume sort of like Batman so no one could see his face. I prefer the helping in secret method.

I prefer a more active Superboy as i just can't see Clark choosing to let bad things happen. I can accept his operating in secret, but depending on his power level I'm not in favor of the Smallville approach. Clark in that show lacked flight and wasn't really designed to handle most challenges not happening right in front of him.

If a teenaged Clark is already capable of quickly getting from even state to state, I'd expect him to intervene in any prolonged crisis. Things like wildfires that take days to put out, the aftermath of natural disasters, stuff like that. And if he is flying from place to place in the blink of an eye, that expands how many incidents he'd be able to respond to.

[Jon Clark]

Do people like the Lex Luthor clone contribution for Con El?

I much prefer the original take where The Metropolis Kid was Cadmus trying to create a Kryptonian from purely human genes because they couldn't quite crack the Kryptonian genetic code. I might not object to Lex's genes being used there as i can see Lex having an operative at Cadmus who would switch Lex's material for anyone else's,

But I find Geoff Johns' idea of Superboy being created from Lex's and Superman's combined genes a bit creepy and childish. A half Lex, half Superman character is a lazy way to create drama ("Oh will my Lex genes make me a criminal or will my Superman genes make me a hero?"). And it creates another forced connection to Lex out of what could be an independent Super-family character.

I'm glad they haven't taken to tying Steel to Lex by making John Henry Irons a former LexCorp employee, making Lex the secret backer of the criminals who stole Iron's weapon designs, or making them former scientific rivals prior to Lex being outed as a criminal. They already had that bit in the 90's where Lex was sleeping with the Matrix-Supergirl, used him as a romantic rival with Lois, made the Luthors as rivals of the Olsens as Metropolis old money, had Lex as Perry's boyhood pal.. It would have been nice to have some part of Superman's world that wasn't intimately tied to Lex Luthor.