I miss the love triangle

[Jon Clark]

Lois not knowing Clark is Superman doesn't make her stupid. No one knows Clark is Superman. The disguise is so good that not even the best investigative reporter can figure it out.

This.

Lois should never have been made some super-detective who somehow is able to solve mysteries at Batman level. And her inability to see who Superman and Clark really are should be a testament to how good the disguise is, not a knock on her intelligence.

[Yoda]

Lois not knowing Clark is Superman doesn't make her stupid. No one knows Clark is Superman. The disguise is so good that not even the best investigative reporter can figure it out.

I don't disagree with you there. But there are plenty of people who do. It's literally become a punchline. That can't be ignored. The problem is lying to someone you're romantically involved with isn't seen as a joke, funny, or cute anymore. Not to mention mind wipes like Superman 2 are way to rapey for modern audiences as well. Or you have situations like where Clark hesitated to stop the parasite which is just as bad. Keeping it up once they become romantically involved becomes an issue. So while I think there are some ways to incorporate it, at some point you have to have him come clean. In comics you could probably go 5+ years on a narrative like that. But for movies and tv with a more restrained time frame you have to address it in some fashion.

Basically, I like it myself, but if you're going to do the romance (and I don't think you can do a good Superman with out Lois and the romance) you have to address it eventually. Otherwise you're stuck in the loop of will they/won't they which eventually gets played out itself because of all the way you have to contrive to keep her in the dark or keep them apart.

[Jon Clark]

The triangle was a tired, played-out concept that was actively harming the Superman books by the time it went away. It should stay dead.

And yet Superman's popularity has diminished, with its loss.

[Yoda]

And yet Superman's popularity has diminished, with its loss.

Correlation does not equal causation. It's a little more complicated than that.

[stargazer01]

I don't disagree with you there. But there are plenty of people who do. It's literally become a punchline. That can't be ignored. The problem is lying to someone you're romantically involved with isn't seen as a joke, funny, or cute anymore. Not to mention mind wipes like Superman 2 are way to rapey for modern audiences as well. Or you have situations like where Clark hesitated to stop the parasite which is just as bad. Keeping it up once they become romantically involved becomes an issue. So while I think there are some ways to incorporate it, at some point you have to have him come clean. In comics you could probably go 5+ years on a narrative like that. But for movies and tv with a more restrained time frame you have to address it in some fashion.

Basically, I like it myself, but if you're going to do the romance (and I don't think you can do a good Superman with out Lois and the romance) you have to address it eventually. Otherwise you're stuck in the loop of will they/won't they which eventually gets played out itself because of all the way you have to contrive to keep her in the dark or keep them apart.

This.

Sorry but you can't have Superman romancing Lois for too long without coming clean with her (Superman Returns did it and was creepy that Lois didn't know he was sleeping with Clark..). It shows immaturity and lack of trust.

Lois not realizing Clark is Superman worked in the 60s/70s but now it doesn't. Not with adults. maybe with children who didn't take Superman as seriously as many of us do. Superman can't go back to the 60s. He's the Man of Tomorrow. We admire him not because he's funny and lies to people, but because he cares and he is honest and pure.

[Truman Burbank]

And yet Superman's popularity has diminished, with its loss.

Superman's popularity was diminishing before it died, in part because of the insistence on keeping the Triangle and other stagnant story elements alive.

[Yoda]

Superman's popularity was diminishing before it died, in part because of the insistence on keeping the Triangle and other stagnant story elements alive.

I mean, the Post-Crisis reboot came long before the loss of the triangle. And that was a direct reaction to the serious decline in popularity. Blaming that on the loss of the triangle isn't credible.

[Sacred Knight]

I don't know if I'd ever want to go back to the old love triangle as it was. If they could put a new spin on it, maybe, but I can't think of anything that would do that. I mean, I'd take it over the marriage at this point, but still, my ideal would probably be playing on a status quo where Lois knows Superman is Clark very early on and she's a lone Metropolis confidant, with the obligatory sexual tension.

[Jon Clark]

This.

Sorry but you can't have Superman romancing Lois for too long without coming clean with her (Superman Returns did it and was creepy that Lois didn't know he was sleeping with Clark..). It shows immaturity and lack of trust.

Lois not realizing Clark is Superman worked in the 60s/70s but now it doesn't. Not with adults. maybe with children who didn't take Superman as seriously as many of us do. Superman can't go back to the 60s. He's the Man of Tomorrow. We admire him not because he's funny and lies to people, but because he cares and he is honest and pure.

Then why not have him just ditch Clark Kent entirely and go with the Truth set up where everyone just knows. Honest. Pure. It even satisfies all those "glasses aren't fooling anyone" types.

[Kuwagaton]

I agree with Adekis, if I'm not mistaken that OP signature quote came from that round robin creator interview where everyone justified the premise of not allowing the marriage. That really seemed like a DC thing in the moment, especially considering Siegel and/or Shuster history with K Metal, the 1949 marriage, and you know... Lois being modeled after Joanne.

I agree with Superlad on the triangle being a foundation element in what they came to have. I was interested in the New 52 re arranging it but that did not turn out well.

[Jon Clark]

I mean, the Post-Crisis reboot came long before the loss of the triangle. And that was a direct reaction to the serious decline in popularity. Blaming that on the loss of the triangle isn't credible.

The triangle was dead before Crisis was even a thought.

The Superman-Lois romance had ended by 1982. Clark was sort of orbiting dating Lana by 1986. And the whole bit with either Lois or Lana suspecting the dual ID or having dueling interest in Clark and Superman hadn't been seen since sometime in the 1970's.

[Adekis]

This.

Sorry but you can't have Superman romancing Lois for too long without coming clean with her (Superman Returns did it and was creepy that Lois didn't know he was sleeping with Clark..). It shows immaturity and lack of trust.

For my money, the worst is in the Death of Superman animated movie, where Kal legitimately thinks it's a possibility that Barry's going to marry Iris without telling her he's the Flash. I mean man, how anyone thought that movie did his relationship with Lois better than the live action movies is far, far beyond me.

Lois not realizing Clark is Superman worked in the 60s/70s but now it doesn't. Not with adults. maybe with children who didn't take Superman as seriously as many of us do. Superman can't go back to the 60s. He's the Man of Tomorrow. We admire him not because he's funny and lies to people, but because he cares and he is honest and pure.

I don't know, I think that Batman v. Superman, for all that people like to bash it, did very sensibly with regard to the Clark Kent disguise. I mean sure, it didn't apply to Lois, who knew Clark was Superman, but otherwise the solution was just that Clark worked at the Planet and nobody knew he was Superman. Don't draw attention to it, it's just how it is.

Then why not have him just ditch Clark Kent entirely and go with the Truth set up where everyone just knows. Honest. Pure. It even satisfies all those "glasses aren't fooling anyone" types.

People get really mad when you do that kind of stuff. I don't know whether you were paying attention to the fanbase around the time of Truth, but people were so mad I felt like they weren't even reading the books except to complain about them, haha! It wasn't great. And it wasn't all down to the secret being out, they complained about him riding a motorcycle, not wearing a cape, getting a haircut, fighting evil, not fighting evil, everything! If the traditional Superman set-up gets too much distance from the stories they're telling, people start getting mad about anything, regardless of the stories' actual quality.

Personally, I really kind of liked a lot of Truth. Not all of it, maybe. But I do think outing him is probably a step too far in regards to fixing this particular problem.

[Jon Clark]

For my money, the worst is in the Death of Superman animated movie, where Kal legitimately thinks it's a possibility that Barry's going to marry Iris without telling her he's the Flash. I mean man, how anyone thought that movie did his relationship with Lois better than the live action movies is far, far beyond me.

To be fair Barry did marry Iris without her knowing. They were married a year before he told her. Mind you, she already knew the truth on her own before that, but for his part Barry was unaware she knew.

[Slim Shady]

I like the triangle and it was a great thing for the first part of Superman’s history, but it couldn’t go on forever. It can still work on film or tv, but a super long running thing like comics and the secret has to come out at some point. I’d say they timed it about right.

[Adekis]

To be fair Barry did marry Iris without her knowing. They were married a year before he told her. Mind you, she already knew the truth on her own before that, but for his part Barry was unaware she knew.

With regard to the comics, I just straight up didn't know that, but I think in the movie the whole point was that Barry kind of reacted to Clark's question with a kind of skeptical bemusement. "Do you really think I'd do something like that?" Regardless of what had happened in fifty year old comics, lying to your spouse on such a fundamental level is really not a reasonable thing to do, if the audience is to see the relationship as anything approaching healthy, in this day and age.

Hrm, I've heard that Clark married Lois without telling her in the Superman newspaper strip. No idea if that's true or not, but I'd definitely be interested in reading it either way, haha!