Do the best women of Marvel come from the X-Men brand?

[davetvs]

The attention was negative from people like Sargon of Akkad, the False Rape Society, and Return of Kings. All because she hurt their feelings by saying the movie was intended towards girls and women.

When people start sending murder and rape threats to an actor/actress, their opinion officially means less than nothing, period.

PeriodT! Pretending the hate for Captain Marvel/Brie Larson didn't come primarily from incels and social injustice warriors is laughably inaccurate. That said, the X-Women by and large are more interesting characters than she is. I did like the movie though.

[PsychoEFrost]

PeriodT! Pretending the hate for Captain Marvel/Brie Larson didn't come primarily from incels and social injustice warriors is laughably inaccurate. That said, the X-Women by and large are more interesting characters than she is. I did like the movie though.

Agreed on all points. It was a decent movie, nothing perfect.

[Beaddle]

I'd make a point about people needing to learn that you can hype women characters up without tearing others down, but I'm fairly certain this whole thread was just a bad-faith excuse to **** on a character .

No one is tearing carol down, she is not even liked well in the marvel forum. This is like watching star trek discovery again. saying we disliked Michael Burnham is tearing her down and been racist and sexist. some female characters just don't have good traits or are likeable. Remember Bella Swan from the Twilight days?

that's played by an actress who has been falsely accused of misandry by trolls in attempts to justify and motivate sexist attacks

You can still separate sexist trolls from an actress that got some legit criticism.

Do you want me to tell you all the nasty and sexist things people have said about Jennifer Lawrence playing Mystique. Funny, how people are so protective of Brie and not Jennifer.

[Hybrid]

Whoa, took a long break and now I came back to see what I missed. Are we still going on about Carol? My issue with Carol is simple: Her push by Marvel was completely forced and only done because they didn't have the X-Women for their movies. Before that, Carol was a B-lister and was treated as such, while the X-Women were by far the most celebrated ladies of the Marvel brand. Would this have happened if the film rights were ever an issue? I kind of doubt it.

I'm not the biggest fan of Brie Larson's performance, but that's another matter and I don't *hate* her.

I was just curious if it was true that the X-Women are the best among the Marvel heroines, and I'm worried this is getting derailed a bit.

[PsychoEFrost]

No one is tearing carol down, she is not even liked well in the marvel forum. This is like watching star trek discovery again. saying we disliked Michael Burnham is tearing her down and been racist and sexist. some female characters just don't have good traits or are likeable. Remember Bella Swan from the Twilight days?



You can still separate sexist trolls from an actress that got some legit criticism.

Do you want me to tell you all the nasty and sexist things people have said about Jennifer Lawrence playing Mystique. Funny, how people are so protective of Brie and not Jennifer.

Lawrence didn't get death or rape threats for her movies. Larson did. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

[terrancejameson]

Whoa, took a long break and now I came back to see what I missed. Are we still going on about Carol? My issue with Carol is simple: Her push by Marvel was completely forced and only done because they didn't have the X-Women for their movies. Before that, Carol was a B-lister and was treated as such, while the X-Women were by far the most celebrated ladies of the Marvel brand. Would this have happened if the film rights were ever an issue? I kind of doubt it.

I'm not the biggest fan of Brie Larson's performance, but that's another matter and I don't *hate* her.

I was just curious if it was true that the X-Women are the best among the Marvel heroines, and I'm worried this is getting derailed a bit.

And this cannot be denied. I don't think anyone is going to ignore that the rape and death threats were especially attributed to her asserting herself as a woman that didn't care about the opinion of the men around her. We won't let that distract from your points tho.

[Electricmastro]

I was just curious if it was true that the X-Women are the best among the Marvel heroines, and I'm worried this is getting derailed a bit.

I suspect that might have been the more popular opinion in the late 70s though 90s. As far as I'm concerned, X-Men-related women introduced in that era such as Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue, Psylocke, Emma Frost, Magik, and Wolfsbane, have always remained popular, and 1980's Dark Phoenix Saga wasn't only significant because of the development it gave Marvel Girl, but also because it introduced Dazzler, who went on to have a 42 issue solo series lasting from 1981-1986. I think that makes her the X-Men-related woman to have the longest-running solo series actually. In more recent times, I get the feeling the focus by-and-large has shifted more to the women from the Spider-Man brand though, like Spider-Girl, Gwen Stacy, and Black Cat.

[H-E-D]

I was just curious if it was true that the X-Women are the best among the Marvel heroines, and I'm worried this is getting derailed a bit.

You're the one that started this thread by shitting on Carol, so that's on you.

[terrancejameson]

You're the one that started this thread by shitting on Carol, so that's on you.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/19/17...-sue-deconnick

"As Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel, Carol has led the Avengers, adventured with the X-Men and saved the world over and over again. She’s one of the most powerful Marvel superheroes who isn’t simply a god. And in the MCU, where characters like Storm and Jean Grey don’t (yet) exist, she’s inarguably the most powerful superheroine around."

It's not so much "shitting on Carol" if the general points he's made are indeed true.

[H-E-D]

https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/19/17...-sue-deconnick

"As Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel, Carol has led the Avengers, adventured with the X-Men and saved the world over and over again. She’s one of the most powerful Marvel superheroes who isn’t simply a god. And in the MCU, where characters like Storm and Jean Grey don’t (yet) exist, she’s inarguably the most powerful superheroine around."

It's not so much "shitting on Carol" if the general points he's made are indeed true.

The general point of "divided movie rights dictated what characters the MCU could use" applies to every character in the MCU. That was not the general point he was making.

You don't see people running around bitching about how Scott Lang sucks because if they'd had the X-rights Marvel Studios could have made Gambit instead of Ant-Man.

He's using his praise of the X-Women as a smokescreen for the weird grudge he nurses against the character of Carol Danvers.

[Hybrid]

The general point of "divided movie rights dictated what characters the MCU could use" applies to every character in the MCU. That was not the general point he was making.

You don't see people running around bitching about how Scott Lang sucks because if they'd had the X-rights Marvel Studios could have made Gambit instead of Ant-Man.

He's using his praise of the X-Women as a smokescreen for the weird grudge he nurses against the character of Carol Danvers.

dafuq does Ant-Man and Gambit have to do with each other?

Dude, if you think Carol would've gotten shilled to anywhere near this level in a world where Marvel always had the film rights to the X-Women, you're delusional to the max. You want proof? Look at how it was before, say, 2012.

Boom.

[Hybrid]

Btw, I did like Carol... back when she Ms. Marvel, in the role she was intended for. If you look around, you'll know I'm not the only one who finds it off that Marvel acts like Carol is suddenly the greatest thing ever, and the movies have nothing to do with it.

I don't like how confrontational you're being.

[Electricmastro]

Btw, I did like Carol... back when she Ms. Marvel, in the role she was intended for. If you look around, you'll know I'm not the only one who finds it off that Marvel acts like Carol is suddenly the greatest thing ever, and the movies have nothing to do with it.

I don't like how confrontational you're being.

People have pointed out to me that she's being framed like "Marvel's Wonder Woman," and boasting things like, "She has done this, is one of the most powerful, and saved the world this many times."

And I'm just like, "Ok."

[Dark-Jacket]

d
Dude, if you think Carol would've gotten shilled to anywhere near this level in a world where Marvel always had the film rights to the X-Women, you're delusional to the max. You want proof? Look at how it was before, say, 2012.

Boom.

I did, I wrote a story of Carol, the girl has been constantly pushed since her inception in the 60's.

So I did a bit of research on Carol just to get her timeline back.

She was created in 1968! She predates actually most of the popular characters right now and is first gen marvel character. She was already ranked and could overpower men on a fight.

When she sarted as Ms. Marvel in 1977, she was a feminist figure, fighting for equality in payment. She was a successfull writer and author on her own. She's also one of the first distaff counterpart to completely break away from the character inspiraity

We got then the awful Marcus storyline after she joined the Avengers and then the Rogue fight which led her to be a rape survivor (mind and physical).
She then became Binary (though that's the first stories I read about her, Binary is not my favourite era).

She came back as Warbird under Busiek and dealt with alcoholism which was a clever move by Busiek as it fleshed an insanely powerful character as human. Since then, she has slowly but firmly gain popularity (that's around then she went from a character I liked to a character I love.) She gained her own series again in 2006 two years before Iron Man hit theater.
I lost interest in her with this ongoing because it was written horribly.

the character shilling began aroud 2011/2012 and it has got awry since then.


My point is Carol has been a great character for decades (close to 50 years) she's in a dork age right now but nothing unsalvageable. And she's a great character on her own. (But please, stop trying to write her a love life, she's been fine without for years)

And after reading a lot about her. What people call character shilling is more about bad writing than really pushing her down our throat. (because she's been written as such a jerkass..)
To be honest. Storm has had some of the biggest shilling in comics industry. Let's recap, she's a godess, a queen married to the king of the most powerful country in the world, she's loved by pretty much everyone in the Marvel U. She's so powerful that's insane. She defeated Cyclops in duel without powers (it has been retconned years later). She's been an asgardian. Everyone tells how much she is amazing. (No seriously, try and find a comic where people say something bad about her, and I'm not even talking about member of this board... ) the only difference with Carol is that she's been well written for 20 years and had great character moments under the same writer.

[The Overlord]

Legacy character? Carol was nothing but a minor supporting character in the Capt Marvel solo series until Marvel felt it needed a feminist hero to exploit the 1970's Women's rights movement. Her solo lasted only 23 issues before it was canceled. Then she ended up spending nearly 15 years of semi-exile in space. Rick Jones is more of a Legacy character than Carol is. It wasn't until Kurt Busiek brought her out of exile she became popular.
Funny thing, though. Ever since Carol started calling herself CM, her book has been canceled and relaunched what 5 or six times? The last issue before the Life of Capt Marvel mini sold less than 16000 copies.

I think that is irrelevant compared to her movie making a billion dollars, for Marvel the real money is in the other media adaptions, not the comics themselves. The profits from one of the MCU movies could fund Marvel comics for years.