All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Robotman]

Biden's 2023 budget would hike taxes on the ultra-rich and corporations, boost defense and police spending


Biden’s budget seemingly trying to please both sides to some extent.

[Rzerox21xx]

I recalled hearing about John Wayne needing to be restrained by 6 security guards over getting offended over a Native American woman Sacheen Littlefeather speaking up for indigenous portrayal in movies and persecutions. Clint Eastwood making a dumb joke, while she was had to have bodyguards escort her.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...n-1973-317550/

[achilles]

Of course, it wasn’t right to hit the guy.


It’s feeble…Will Smith is 53 for goodness sake, his wife was in no physical danger…he wasn’t protecting her in any meaningful way.

He’s a professional actor…his first reaction surely should have been to just speak up, point out the remarks were in poor taste.

Honestly, at this point, I think it should go to Thunderdome. Or at least a steel cage. Triple H can ref. Though it would have been better if Smith has slapped THE Rock, rather than Chris Rock.

[babyblob]

I recalled hearing about John Wayne needing to be restrained by 6 security guards over getting offended over a Native American woman Sacheen Littlefeather speaking up for indigenous portrayal in movies and persecutions. Clint Eastwood making a dumb joke, while she was had to have bodyguards escort her.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...n-1973-317550/

My favorite movie of all time is a John Wayne Western. But I cant deny the man was less then pc in his beliefs.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I recalled hearing about John Wayne needing to be restrained by 6 security guards over getting offended over a Native American woman Sacheen Littlefeather speaking up for indigenous portrayal in movies and persecutions. Clint Eastwood making a dumb joke, while she was had to have bodyguards escort her.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...n-1973-317550/

Hmm, so Eastwood has always been a douche. Good to know

[achilles]

My favorite movie of all time is a John Wayne Western. But I cant deny the man was less then pc in his beliefs.

The guy personally knew Wyatt Earp, I don't think people should expect modern behavior from a guy from that era.

[babyblob]

The guy personally knew Wyatt Earp, I don't think people should expect modern behavior from a guy from that era.

I agree. it doesnt kill my enjoyment of the movie. I just dont look up to him as a person.

[Kirby101]

Plenty of actors from the 30s weren't open racists. Not an excuse.

[babyblob]

Plenty of actors from the 30s weren't open racists. Not an excuse.

Not an excuse. But a person can still enjoy the movies from back them of those actors.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Plenty of actors from the 30s weren't open racists. Not an excuse.

Agreed. John Wayne's behavior, from all accounts, was beyond the pale. I'm not even shocked that he had to be restrained from assaulting a woman

[Mister Mets]

However, we'll have to deal with the costs as well. Russia is a nuclear power with massive resources, international naval and military capabilities and a land mass that stretches from Eastern Europe to the Pacific Ocean. From the Arctic to China. This will potentially be a pariah nation worse than any the world has ever dealt with - Iran, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq and Gaddafi's Libya combined wouldn't match this.

That is a decision our governments are facing and will have to make, so whatever the principles involved are, we would have to be ready to face the consequences as the fallout will affect not only us but the next generation as well.

Principles can push people to make difficult choices. It's still better to have them than not.

I'm not saying this is you, but I'm noticing an undercurrent of discussion of Ukraine, where some people are trying to push an ideology of ignoring principles. In some cases they seem pissed off that events aren't supporting their version of the world, and people aren't living down to expectations. Some of them liked Russia as a bulwark against western progressivism, though there is also a cohort interested in playing Russia off China, who seem worried that concern about principles is keeping that from happening.

Real question- how good is Russia's Navy these days? I recall their Navy really started to fall apart after the fall of the Soviet Union- not enough funds to maintain their ships, or crews to man them. And looking at Russia's Army in Ukraine, you start to get the impression that the only thing about them you need to fear are the numbers, not how well trained they are (or aren't). Frankly, it seems that the biggest worry about Russia is their nukes- which is a large and legitimate fear.





America has a history of advocating regime change (and instigating it or supporting it at times, usually to the detriment of the people that would be directly impacted). So they probably don't want the country to think they are trying to do that again with Russia- especially when there are so many other things they want the government to be doing right now (like tackling inflation).

That said, it annoys me to know end how the Republicans are jumping on Biden for his remarks, when less than a month ago a sitting US Senator flat out called for Putin to be assassinated.

I'd agree that the main worry about Russia is its nukes. The whole argument about trying to avoid World War 3 doesn't quite match Russia's performance against a country they outnumber. There wouldn't be a long war between nations, partly because no one wants to be on Russia's side.

The nukes are a major concern, but that is a different type of worry than a long protracted land war.

With Biden's comments, I don't see the harm. It is a classic gaffe in that he said something true and inconvenient. But it's useful to signal to Russia that he's pissed off as a way to encourage them to stop being the bad guys in a situation where there is moral clarity. I can't imagine there's anyone who thinks Biden is okay with what Russia did, or that it would be useful to stick to that fiction.

[Mister Mets]

I recalled hearing about John Wayne needing to be restrained by 6 security guards over getting offended over a Native American woman Sacheen Littlefeather speaking up for indigenous portrayal in movies and persecutions. Clint Eastwood making a dumb joke, while she was had to have bodyguards escort her.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...n-1973-317550/

There was an argument that what Wayne wanted to do was worse than what Will Smith did.

But Wayne was successfully restrained. Smith smacked Chris Rock.

People will have different opinions about what makes a question loaded or not, but refusing to answer questions is looked down on and it's something I object to every time I see a politician or influential individual dodge one.

In finding any story about Rufo you were likely to see at least a few about his own lies and misinformation. Also even 9 months ago there were a few issues reported according to Wikipedia.

Treating others as equals shouldn't be a political issue, it is in the constitution as one of the basics, so yes I can imagine that moral people will come to it on their own or if given a simple reminder.

Who specifically have you voted for lately other than Biden? It would allow everyone to see the kind of republican you specifically will support.

If someone is Trans and they regret not being able to have children later in life, they're far more likely going to regret not being able to have children as their transitioned gender not as their original one. I'm sure their future and children are brought up to them before they transition by doctors and their parents, and it shouldn't be a worry of others because the US or any country has a low birth rate. Do you really think a Trans Man is going to get pregnant even if they don't transition physically? Do you expect that at a certain age they'll just snap out of some sort of fad? That question is asked specifically as it is because you have defended a transphobe making transitioning out to be a fad.

If these advantages were so vast where are the many the Trans gold medalists or even one Trans dominated sport? That or maybe the science that says they lost the vast majority of that advantage is correct.

I'm not going to humor your anti-socialist rant as it's a distraction and sidesteps the points I made. Pushback to the fact that our society promotes selfishness shouldn't be an anti-socialist rant just because the word capitalism is involved.

Braun said the states should decide, not that he believes what you stated. Leaving it up to the states to decide not to be bigoted would have resulted in them never getting over it. From Jim Crow to Anti Sodomy laws and DADT reasonable people come to the conclusion that these laws are not worth keeping in the end. As I said before, we should just skip the middle man and not make these clearly hateful laws in the first place.

On loaded questions, there is also the question of how third parties view it.

If I'm asked something and I say it's a loaded question, there are multiple responses from whoever asked me a question. They could rephrase it. They could argue that it's not loaded and that I'm dodging. But there are also other commentators, who could point out something that two people arguing in good faith may be missing.

We should still strive to avoid loaded questions. By their nature, they're not meant to be answered. If someone knows what they're doing, it's a sketchy rhetorical strategy. If they don't know what they're doing, they may have a poor understanding of the views of people who disagree with them. It's best to ask questions for clarity, rather than to try to score points.

The New Yorker article covered some of the pushback against Rufo.

I get the argument that it's important to treat others as equals, but what exactly does that mean? Does it mean there's no hint of an obligation to make any accommodation for the other person? What are the proposed laws involve spending of taxpayer money? Platitudes are not policy.

I usually but not always vote for Republicans. My congresswoman is Grace Meng, if that helps anyone ascertain what candidates for Congress, or local office I might have the option of voting for.

The US' low birthrate is relevant in the difficulties people will have adopting. It's an interesting point about whether transitioning can be more like a fad for some people (I get you're summarizing your understanding of a counterargument rather than expressing your own views here.) I really wouldn't know how many people that's the case for. If it's ten percent, that would still represent a major policy problem.

We are seeing Lia Thomas dominate her sport. When competing against men, her numbers were worse. There would be a variety of reasons for why trans athletes aren't dominating multiple sports, including age (sports is dominated by younger people who have trained for a while) and culture.

If someone goes on an anti-capitalism rant it seems fair to respond in kind.

Braun's view that the states should have decided seems to justified from a flawed understanding of the civil rights act, and the fourteenth amendment. He did correct himself pretty quickly. A big question is what the policy should be for all lawmakers. I completely understand having an ungenerous take on what Braun said, but that would also allow Republicans to have an ungenerous take if a Democrat says something misguided and corrects themselves in a few hours. If the argument is that Braun shouldn't be able to do that, it means the next time a Democrat says something dumb, that should define the party, even if the Democrat quickly clarifies themselves.

[Mister Mets]

It was a pretty clear fabrication from the article itself, it was so one sided and didn't even attempt to quote the tweets. When an article doesn't even try to present the other side of such an argument you know it's likely pushing a narrative.

What's the other side here? What did the article leave out?

If an organization publicly announces than an LGBT author's behavior disqualifies her for a prize, without being clear about what the behavior was, that's going to shape the coverage.

They don't have to provide quotes of her tweets as theirs was a simple press release, where as the Times piece was an actual piece of journalism that failed to actually report the whole story...the difference is pretty clear. But hey, I get it, that doesn't fit the narrative you were looking to present so let's all ignore that right?

The whole narrative itself is funny, it's trying to spin this issue as "Cancel culture is so crazy now that the liberals are canceling themselves!" ...which when you break it down just points to the fact that "cancel culture" isn't really a thing but is just a case of actions having consequences.

As to the award, it does appear I mispoke, I had seen it posted elsewhere that the award she was nominated for was a non-cash one which appears to be untrue.

See, it's not hard to admit you were misinformed.

If an organization makes a claim about someone's character/ behavior, they should have the receipts. The onus is on them to back up anything they day about her publicly, especially since it does seem likely that in the world of LGBT publishing allegations of a troubling hostility towards trans people and their allies is toxic for one's reputation.

If it's a bad thing to be hostile towards trans people and their allies, it is a bad thing to wrongly accuse someone of that. So there should be sufficient evidence to show everyone else that you can back up these kinds of statements.

Here's a pretty good thread on the whole thing. Anyway, Hough's a piece of shit, and Mets is as par for him as of late going to bat over transphobic BS.

https://twitter.com/BadWritingTakes/...48541021642760

Hough has a history of being a nasty piece of work, a bully, and now she's taking up for transphobic literature from an author who's already been correctly pointed out for not exactly being sensitive towards minorities before (and no, she's not canceled either).

Seems I was incorrect about the award, I had heard she wasn't nominated, and I'm hardly going to give much credit to the New York 'let's do our fifth cancel culture article in three days' times.

Why is the New York Times mistaken to cover this?

[thwhtGuardian]

What's the other side here? What did the article leave out?

If an organization publicly announces than an LGBT author's behavior disqualifies her for a prize, without being clear about what the behavior was, that's going to shape the coverage.


If an organization makes a claim about someone's character/ behavior, they should have the receipts. The onus is on them to back up anything they day about her publicly, especially since it does seem likely that in the world of LGBT publishing allegations of a troubling hostility towards trans people and their allies is toxic for one's reputation.

If it's a bad thing to be hostile towards trans people and their allies, it is a bad thing to wrongly accuse someone of that. So there should be sufficient evidence to show everyone else that you can back up these kinds of statements.

Why is the New York Times mistaken to cover this?

It isn't on them at all, that's absurd. The first lesson in any class on public relations is to be succinct and just state your action and get out and you're just plain wrong if you believe otherwise because otherwise you're just getting yourself stuck in the weeds.

There's no defending this issue, there's no one wrongly accused here just an author known for being a hothead on line who said some trans-phobic things and then defended other people who said even worse things in her defense and so as a consequence it was decided that she wasn't someone they wanted to exemplify.

There's no cancel culture narrative here, just consequences for behaving badly.

It's time to admit that you got duped by a one sided article and didn't do the research to see if it was true. It happens to everyone at one time or another so no harm,no foul once you admit it and move on.

[Kirby101]

Not an excuse. But a person can still enjoy the movies from back them of those actors.

Yes, you can. Especially the john Ford ones.