Amazing Spider-man 73 Preview, too spoilerish

[bob.schoonover]

In fairness, one could argue that were some clues pointing towards this during Nick Spencer's run. For instance:

spoilers:

*Kindred never wore the same color trenchcoat. Sometimes it was all purple, other times it was brownish-tan. That, in hindsight, was a visual cue that Kindred was actually two different people. *Also, Mysterio saying he died, went to Hell, and came back to life was already retconned by Dan Slott prior to Spencer even coming onto the book. The explanation was that "It's Mysterio. He fakes his death all the time." Having Kindred turn the tables on him makes it delicious irony. *If Kindred was a back-from-the-dead Harry, then how was there a Harry Osborn still alive and well? Odds now seem that he's definitely a clone. *Also, if Kindred has supernatural powers, then what does he need with the Chameleon Serum? That should've been seen as our first big clue that Kindred being a demon from Hell was all smoke and mirrors. *Doc Ock using Ant-Man's helmet to disable the centipedes implanted in the villain's ears? Very much tech based. Because if the centipedes were supernatural, why would they be affected by technology?

end of spoilers

Basically, it looks as though Nick Spencer used One More Day as a massive red herring, spoilers:

while ironically resolving it at the same time. Because if turns out that Kindred really are Gabriel and Sarah Stacy and thus this was all to retcon Sins Past, that means their pretending to be Harry resurrected from Hell wound up being too successful. Because by Peter going to Doctor Strange for help during "Last Remains," it means Strange wound up uncovering the Mephisto deal with Peter and MJ by accident.

end of spoilers

There are a few other good hints about what appears to be happening
spoilers:

*In ASM 24, Mysterio, posing as his therapist (who he's hypnotized into thinking he's Mysterio), says to not-Mysterio, "...which is more likely, that you were transported to Hades then miraculously freed by a demon to do his bidding -which just so coincidentally also seemed to involve your sworn enemy? Or that this fascination of yours manifested as a delusion?" *Kindred did *not* resurrect The Rose for Kingpin, despite it presumably being within his abilities and helpful to his cause. Because he/they can't. *In the first TPB, Mysterio points out that he effectively fooled the Avengers with his alien invasion entirely with practical effects (and a union crew) I think, then, the "This is your life" Sins Rising Prelude was actually a Chameleon-style indoctrination to create a new Stan Carter, and Sin Eater's "cleansing" was entirely hypnosis and practical effects from Mysterio and the crew. I'm also very inclined to think that AI Harry is in control of Gabriel somehow and uses the Chameleon serum to look like "himself" - Those last two points together explain Chameleon Conspiracy's placement in the narrative pretty well, and keep Last Remains from being entirely nonsensical (AI Harry is monologuing through Gabriel, so it's still Harry from a certain point of view). It also explains the excessive use of "Gotcha" to telegraph which Harry this is - not our content clone, but the ghost of the driven-mad best friend.

end of spoilers

[stillanerd]

There are a few other good hints about what appears to be happening
spoilers:

*In ASM 24, Mysterio, posing as his therapist (who he's hypnotized into thinking he's Mysterio), says to not-Mysterio, "...which is more likely, that you were transported to Hades then miraculously freed by a demon to do his bidding -which just so coincidentally also seemed to involve your sworn enemy? Or that this fascination of yours manifested as a delusion?" *Kindred did *not* resurrect The Rose for Kingpin, despite it presumably being within his abilities and helpful to his cause. Because he/they can't. *In the first TPB, Mysterio points out that he effectively fooled the Avengers with his alien invasion entirely with practical effects (and a union crew) I think, then, the "This is your life" Sins Rising Prelude was actually a Chameleon-style indoctrination to create a new Stan Carter, and Sin Eater's "cleansing" was entirely hypnosis and practical effects from Mysterio and the crew. I'm also very inclined to think that AI Harry is in control of Gabriel somehow and uses the Chameleon serum to look like "himself" - Those last two points together explain Chameleon Conspiracy's placement in the narrative pretty well, and keep Last Remains from being entirely nonsensical (AI Harry is monologuing through Gabriel, so it's still Harry from a certain point of view). It also explains the excessive use of "Gotcha" to telegraph which Harry this is - not our content clone, but the ghost of the driven-mad best friend.

end of spoilers

Great observations! And yeah the one thing which kept throwing me off was spoilers:

Kindred's interior monologue, which only makes sense if Kindred is Harry. But as you point out, it could very well have been the Harry Osborn AI this entire time, which would be another bit of clever misdirect.

end of spoilers

Is it perfect? No, but there's just enough play to make it feasible.

[Vortex85]

It's better that nothing, I must say, but Spider-Man is still a loser, because his soul (or a fragment of it) is at stake here. He must remember it if we could say that Mephisto is done and has no power over him. Take into consideration also leaks in their "behind the scenes". The editors didn't agree to undo OMD, so if they didn't agree now and we had the best opportunity here to fix this mess, they won't agree in the future. Unless there will be a revolution amongst editorial staff.

I'm also wondering how AI Harry knows about Norman Osborn's deal with Mephisto without supernatural element. Even Norman forgot about this pact (Mephisto said he won't remember their talk). He remember that after cleansing by Sin-Eater. That's what Kindred wanted in the Last Remains story. After cleansing Osborn knew that Kindred was Harry, because he remembered selling his son's soul to the devil. We must also remember Harry imprinted his memory and personality to AI computer after his father's alleged death. Norman struck the deal when Harry was very young. Who then told AI Harry about it? Maybe one Kindred is supernatural (Gabriel), and the second one (Sarah) is still human (therefore needing Chameleon serum etc). Gabriel made a deal with Mephisto and found out all secrets about Osborn and Parker family. Therefore he could play the part of Harry during Last Remains.

There is also an interesting theory that Norman scammed Mephisto by cloning his son. And it was proven with Billy Connors that a clone has a soul of his/her genetic template, so maybe Harry's soul was taken from Mephisto hands in hell and put in the clone body. Therefore Harry who was locked with Carlie in the cell, is real Harry spiritually, but biologically he is a clone. In this case Mephisto wanted to take revenge on Norman and struck deal with his second son, Gabriel (alleged son). But there is a plot hole in this theory because a supernatural being like Mephisto should know that Gabriel is not real son of Osborn. But maybe the devil gave him powers knowing he will use them in their vendetta agains Norman and Peter. Who knows?

spoilers:

Well, on the 4chan leaks Mephisto revokes the deal and tries to kill Aunt May with a death bolt. MJ remembers as a result, and Peter stops Mephisto from killing May with Dr. Strange's help. I'd have to assume Peter knows about the deal now if that's the case or he would when he recovers since MJ knows. That is, if the leaks are true.

end of spoilers

[classicgmer]

When do LCS's typically have physical possession of books. Could've sworn the owner of the one I use to go to said he gets em the Monday or Tuesday before which would work explain the leak for 73 but not so much 74.


If the spoilers for 74 are in anyway true I would think Marvel is pissed as it would have to have been leaked from within the Company.

[bob.schoonover]

Great observations! And yeah the one thing which kept throwing me off was spoilers:

Kindred's interior monologue, which only makes sense if Kindred is Harry. But as you point out, it could very well have been the Harry Osborn AI this entire time, which would be another bit of clever misdirect.

end of spoilers

Is it perfect? No, but there's just enough play to make it feasible.

Yeah, I think with about 110 pages left to play with, Spencer will fill in most of the holes in a way that I'll find satisfying enough. There were a few nitpicks here and there through the Green Goblin Returns arc, but basically all of Last Remains through now have kind of hinged on ASM 74 sticking the landing. I'm hoping King's Ransom and The Rose gets addressed and well-used in DD with Zdarksy, because I don't see there being much room for that in the last two issues.

I'll be a little peeved if the Mephisto plot is entirely coincidental to the main Kindred plot (Mephisto owning Harry's soul from his deal with Norman seems conspicuously unaddressed in the 4chan spoilers and the preview, for example - Norman subverting the deal is mentioned, but not anyone actually worrying about SSM200 Harry). There are good examples of "two villains have overlapping agendas that happen to bear fruit at the same time," but there are a lot of bad examples, too.

Side question for everyone - does the Gathering of Five tpb include Legacy of Evil or not? I see conflicting contents listed in different places and can't tell if there were multiple editions of the collection, a bad/old solicitation or if some sites are just wrong. Thanks in advance

[Vortex85]

I'll be a little peeved if the Mephisto plot is entirely coincidental to the main Kindred plot (Mephisto owning Harry's soul from his deal with Norman seems conspicuously unaddressed in the 4chan spoilers and the preview, for example - Norman subverting the deal is mentioned, but not anyone actually worrying about SSM200 Harry). There are good examples of "two villains have overlapping agendas that happen to bear fruit at the same time," but there are a lot of bad examples, too.

spoilers:

Agreed. I feel like we must be missing some important info given Mephisto's part in Sinister War with Dr. Strange and that panel with Mysterio wanting to tell Peter and MJ all this is happening because of their deal with Mephisto. If the reason for Sinister War is all about the Gabriel and Sarah wanting revenge for Peter not caring enough about them then how does that relate to Peter/MJ and Mephisto as we see back in Sinister War issue 1? Futher, Bleeding cool still shows Harry as the mastermind more than Gabriel or Sarah. So he must be pissed about something else. Something doesn't add up here. Hopefully when the actual issues come out it all ties together in a satisfying way.

end of spoilers

[edwardmetalwing]

If the leaks are true OMD is dealt with and resolved too, but it seems like an afterthought the way its explained in the leak. Basically its over. Mephisto is done. MJ remembers. However no big moment with Peter on it. Thats what we all wanted so I hope there is more to it than just that. I womder if Marvel will have anything more like n it when Peter recovers.

Its not though. Like Peter still wouldnt know what his sin really was. All this run would be for nothing. Really I hace stuck with this run but if it does not point all to Harry and also does not acknowledge OMD, Spencer is going to have far less respect from me than Slott has. It just sucks that what you have been diligently waiting for and guessing for ends up coming to nothing.

[GoldenTiger]

When do LCS's typically have physical possession of books. Could've sworn the owner of the one I use to go to said he gets em the Monday or Tuesday before which would work explain the leak for 73 but not so much 74.


If the spoilers for 74 are in anyway true I would think Marvel is pissed as it would have to have been leaked from within the Company.

When I subscribed to asm via marvel directly, I sometimes got books the preceding Friday or saturday. It's possible someone could have gotten leaks, but who knows.

[Dzika_Sowa]

The worst part is that they could retcon Sins Past but also revoke OMD at the same time, but due to editoring they chose to take care of the first story only. And I don't believe they will undo OMD in the future, because they had the best opportunity in this run. All players were there: Mary Jane, Mephisto, Doctor Strange, Mysterio, Kindred (if he would be a demon). All wasted just to prove that the long dead character stayed virgin and didn't make out with his father's best friend! I know that's no ok, but in reality those situations happen. Gwen was a free will woman and could had a moment of weakness like all humans has, especially she didn't know that Osborn was a crazy psychopath dressing as a goblin. He was a respected businessman, a man of success, even could be handsome for his age. It's sad, it's not right, cheating and all, I know, but this kind of affairs happen in our reality (for both men and women, I would like to point out). But taking 3 years, dragging this story so long, teasing OMD for no reason (ok, maybe Spencer wanted to undo this story, but editors cut him down, but why teasing it in Sinister War with Mephisto, Mysterio speaking about Peter i MJ, plans for engagement etc?) to retcon Sins Past with this mess is... I don't know. Really, after Spencer's run I would like to stop reading Spider-Man. If I didn't write reviews for my webiste www.spider-man.org.pl, I would really do it. I know, you can say not all this leaks are true, but I think they are. Probably somebody from Bleeding Cools posted them and when they saw that not all people believe in them they decide to post the scans from the issue or they have been planning that from the beginning.

Woah, now that's a blast to the past! I loved that site when I grew up, used to read characters Bio's all the time

And I do agree. If Spencer and Marvel go down this road, readers are gonna feel cheated.

Not the first time though.

[scarletspidey]

well the Bleeding Cool spoilers seem to make that 4Chan leak look fake don't they?

[Morgoth]

well the Bleeding Cool spoilers seem to make that 4Chan leak look fake don't they?

Didn't BC confirm at least parts of that leak?

[NC_Yankee]

If the leaks are true OMD is dealt with and resolved too, but it seems like an afterthought the way its explained in the leak. Basically its over. Mephisto is done. MJ remembers. However no big moment with Peter on it. Thats what we all wanted so I hope there is more to it than just that. I womder if Marvel will have anything more like n it when Peter recovers.

I am very skeptical of these leaks. Why? 1: Disney runs a tight shop and for those to be real and unauthorized, someone @ Marvel would have had to leak them at a possible cost of their job and maybe even their career ( hello Scarlett Johansson). 1a: If they are real and authorized then it simply could be Spencer and ( or) Marvel playing games ( just another tease ( like solicits and Perhaps Harry as Kindred ( that remains to be seen)). 2: What I find most interesting is hearing NOTHING from Nick Spencer. He is the one person who does not have to worry about Disney ruining his career. If Marvel sandbagged him and his story he would be screaming bloody murder ( especially because of the amount of time invested in Kindred). Also keep in mind, they allowed him to write Hydra Cap without interference ( everyone knows the controversy involved in that story). I would also note the glowing terms editorial used towards Spencer after he left ( far nicer then Dan Slott and he remained with the company). It is not like they said the bare minimum ( let alone saying he sucks).

[Webhead]

Didn't BC confirm at least parts of that leak?

The "leaker" nailed the Sins Past aspect but spoilers:

said Norman knew all along he didn't... sigh impregnate Gwen and was messing with Parker. While the BC pages show otherwise.

end of spoilers

The rest of the spoilers sound like they belong in #74 so it's too soon to tell.

Some users in 4chan are accusing the leaker to be a fake, repeated offender.

[bob.schoonover]

Didn't BC confirm at least parts of that leak?

The "leaker" nailed the Sins Past aspect but spoilers:

said Norman knew all along he didn't... sigh impregnate Gwen and was messing with Parker. While the BC pages show otherwise.

end of spoilers

The rest of the spoilers sound like they belong in #74 so it's too soon to tell.

Some users in 4chan are accusing the leaker to be a fake, repeated offender.

I think the 4chan leaks sound a bit like someone who saw ASM 73 early and started guessing the ending. I think the leaks sound generally on track, but either missing important details (AI Harry is hardly mentioned) or have unmotivated sections (the Ned Leeds part is out of nowhere if it's just one scene). So it could be that they only heard about ASM 74 and didn't see it, just guessed, or something similar (maybe they're not following Spencer's run super well so they didn't understand important details?). But I'm sure they saw ASM 73 early.

[Spiderfan001]

I think the 4chan leaks sound a bit like someone who saw ASM 73 early and started guessing the ending. I think the leaks sound generally on track, but either missing important details (AI Harry is hardly mentioned) or have unmotivated sections (the Ned Leeds part is out of nowhere if it's just one scene). So it could be that they only heard about ASM 74 and didn't see it, just guessed, or something similar (maybe they're not following Spencer's run super well so they didn't understand important details?). But I'm sure they saw ASM 73 early.

Agreed.They tried to use those leaks and then went ahead and made more.
The only stuff I find weird is the Ned hobgoblin stuff and I wouldn't have thought of that but the rest seems like it can be made up by someone reading the run.