X-Men/Fantastic Four #3 Discussion

[Iron Maiden]

And the reason those same humans didn’t lose their future to the homo novissima is because Moira saved them. Anyways, here’s scans from POX 6 that not only show mutants are the next step in evolution, but there is are nine definitive futures that happened before getting reset.


I love Powers of X shutting down arguments.

My answer is the same. There are always alternate timelines that branch out into different directions. What If stories for example have always resulted in a new reality being created so this can be changed at any time.

[lemonpeace]

I think this title captures that vintage feeling of the F4's characters, which makes them kinda annoying and unlikable. the X-Men/Krakoa aren't written annoyingly like the F4, but I don't think Zdarsky fully grasps the post-Hickman X-characters; they just feel kinda meh sometimes, but I still enjoy them enough I guess. Doom is written well, I like what he's doing with Doom, but I feel people who aren't feeling the new direction for the X-Men will end up taking the wrong things away from his character in this issue.

[lemonpeace]

Then I’d say they need to do a better job of showing it. Prime rule of visual storytelling: Show, don’t tell. Don’t TELL me that most humans are cool with/support mutants right to live. SHOW me. What we are SHOWN is that humans hate and fear mutants and work SUPER HARD to defy all known laws of physics and decency to eradicate them, no matter what the X-Men did or tried. So they’ve stopped trying to make humans happy and are focusing on making their own people safe and happy, and that makes them ‘antagonists’ or ‘fascist cult members’. If Marvel doesn’t want us thinking the worst of 616 Humanity, then they need to stop being so fickle and crappy to the heroes DEMONSTRABLY SAVING THEIR COLLECTIVE BACON on the reg. Show us a GRATEFUL humanity once in a while. Or just...not the WORST examples of human nature, repeatedly. Stop making humanity so awful. We get enough of that in the real world. Give us something uplifting to aspire and escape to. Don’t mirror the WORST parts of the real world in making the 616 ‘the world outside your window’.

Which brings me to your earlier point: It’s not the bitterness in comics that is the problem. The problem is what that bitterness reflects. It’s not that I’m ‘vested’ in the comics. It’s that the bitterness in the fandom and the general s*****ness of mankind on display in America right now is so clearly reflected in the presentation of humanity in comics, and it’s impossible to miss, for me.

Right now, the idea of an oppressed minority uniting and coming together to build a nation for themselves - mistakes and all - has relevance and meaning for a lot of people. Just like seeing Captain America go after the German American Bund and war profiteers when he wasn’t allowed to go after Nazis had relevance and meaning for a lot of people, then. Seeing Krakoa I ironically called some of the things it gets called in and out of universe before it even really has had a chance to show us what it is? That pisses some folks - myself included - off, and makes us wonder what comics the rest of you have been reading that your perspectives are SO different. It makes people wonder how people might feel if ACTUAL minorities stepped up and united and said ‘no more’. It speaks to the concept of privilege. It reflects the way people spoke about REAL minorities rising up and not accepting scraps or targeted violence anymore. It reflects poorly on the REAL world.

I enjoy the escapism of beautiful people in tights fighting giant men in purple skirts as much as anyone! I’m just not blind to the problematic way a LOT of people, real and fictional, are reacting to this era of mutant history, ESPECIALLY given the well known metaphor mutants have represented since their inception.

YEESSSS!!! I love it! inject this post into my veins.

[Tycon]

My answer is the same. There are always alternate timelines that branch out into different directions. What If stories for example have always resulted in a new reality being created so this can be changed at any time.

And alternate realities have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Neither do What Ifs. Stories set in the 616 expanding on 616 lore do, however. And what is established is that mutants are the natural evolution to humans, who even have a gene that causes them to go extinct in a couple generations. It’s also established that Moira resets time and saved the world from the homo novissima from merging with the Phalanx and enslaving all life on Earth.

[Journey]

Does anyone else get the pesky feeling that this story won't have an actual ending? Like I think it's gonna be open ended I don't think Sinister will get his hands on the false gods Gene's as teased because he's nowhere in site and it's too late to add him to the plot. So that means somehow were gonna have to comeback to this BS probably with a different author I am not happy.

[Tycon]

Does anyone else get the pesky feeling that this story won't have an actual ending? Like I think it's gonna be open ended I don't think Sinister will get his hands on the false gods Gene's as teased because he's nowhere in site and it's too late to add him to the plot. So that means somehow were gonna have to comeback to this BS probably with a different author I am not happy.

True but I’d rather Hickman write out a proper interaction between the two teams or at least a proper resolution. This whole mini is a mess and a half.

[Journey]

True but I’d rather Hickman write out a proper interaction between the two teams or at least a proper resolution. This whole mini is a mess and a half.

I think that's unwise this has tainted the F4 for a lot of X-Fans they should be kept apart for at least a good 2 years after this.

[zinderel]

I think that's unwise this has tainted the F4 for a lot of X-Fans they should be kept apart for at least a good 2 years after this.

I still am enjoying the non-crossover F4 series right now, but this version of them - the version that comes out when they interact with mutants in the age of Krakoa - is NOT a good look, is DEEPLY problematic on many levels, and does no one any real favors.

I’m hoping that before this ends, Sue’s overconfident aggressiveness gets her into a pickle and leads to her being rescued by a filthy mutie/‘cultistfascistcreep’. I’ll give bonus points if it’s Emma and Emma gets to dress Sue down for her behavior with SUE getting cut off by a scene change before she can retort. I’d also be happy if it’s Scott and he shows genuine concern for Sue’s wellbeing (despite her behavior and her teams insistence that mutants are now ‘creeps’), but calls her ‘Mrs. Richards’ instead of the more familiar ‘Sue’ to illustrate how her behavior has alienated her former allies, and she feels like crap for leaping to the worst conclusions about the people who used to call her a friend.

[Tycon]

I think that's unwise this has tainted the F4 for a lot of X-Fans they should be kept apart for at least a good 2 years after this.

Letting feelings fester without a resolution that is logical for both F4 & Krakoa fans is exactly we don’t need. It’s why no one cared about the Inhumans when they all got fodderized in DoI.

[Ferro]

True but I’d rather Hickman write out a proper interaction between the two teams or at least a proper resolution. This whole mini is a mess and a half.

Id rather not, there's no point in further crossovers

[Tycon]

Id rather not, there's no point in further crossovers

Not another crossover, but something addressed and handled in a main title.

[Maestroneto]

Something not edited by Tommy B.

[Ferro]

Not another crossover, but something addressed and handled in a main title.

but It wont sudenly fix this stain.

[Veitha]

Hickman will definitely use Reed and/or Doom again down the line. I hope we get a nice interaction with the Krakoans when he does. And I hope Sue is not involved.

[Ferro]

Hickman will definitely use Reed and/or Doom again down the line. I hope we get a nice interaction with the Krakoans when he does. And I hope Sue is not involved.

I hope none of them are, im so so so so tired