Valiant Universe: Harbinger, Unity, Rai, A&A; current state & future prospects

[mrbrklyn]

Not at all. In Roberts' A+A run, Archer barely did anything besides punch and kick people. The dude can access the akashic record, of course he's going to be powerful. I actually think he should be viewed alongside Ninjak, X-O, and Bloodshot as one of the most powerful fighters in the Valiant U.

He is not supposed to be! He is supposed to be comic relief!

[mrbrklyn]

Likewise, Archer is tied to Aram which holds him back.

this makes me sad. You just don't get it.
http://www.barrywindsor-smith.com/ValMal/aaewcov.html
http://www.tcj.com/the-barry-windsor-smith-interview/2/


GROTH: The only work of yours in the past that seemed to presage this was the Archer and Armstrong stuff.

WINDSOR-SMITH: Because I thought I would never get to the stage where I thought that the Freebooters, which had a different name in those days, called The Journals of Aran, or something, I never thought I would ever get to the stage in my career where I would be able to pull this sort of thing off all on my own. When I was doing Archer and Armstrong I just started to adapt from a 10-year-old set of characters — characters from what is now called The Freebooters. I thought this was the only way I could get that kind of material out in front of the public, this sort of humorous stuff, fairly sophisticated adult-oriented humor. So I’m actually sorry that I cannibalized myself on that. But one of the things it did prove to me, Gary, was — this is a very upbeat point — when I was writing and drawing Archer and Armstrong, regular people, regular folk started reading my comic books! This is kind of mitigated by the fact that the guy knew me anyway, but nevertheless, he’d never read comic books, and he had heard about Archer and Armstrong, he was the partner of my hairdresser, Sergio, a real sweet guy. And I was having Rita do my hair one day — what’s left of the bleeding stuff [Groth laughs] — and Sergio said, “I really love Archer and Armstrong.” I could have fucking jumped through the ceiling when he said that! He’d heard about Archer and Armstrong, and it turned out it was by me, of all bloody things. He always knew I was a comic book artist but he never knew what I did because he wasn’t into comics. So he started collecting them! And he was telling me, “That scene, so-and-so on page three had me cracked up!” And I just felt like a trillion dollars! I felt like I had made the biggest breakthrough ever. I’ve always wanted the common person to read one of my books and be able to understand it and even laugh at it or something, you know? It was an absolute fabulous thrill to me. In fact, to tell you the truth, I thought he was having me on for the first 10 minutes. [Groth laughs] I thought he was just being really wry with me. But no, it was true. He had heard about this thing from somewhere else, this comic called Archer and Armstrong that adults could read, so he goes ‘round, buys the comic, and says, “Christ Al-bloody-mighty! It’s by that customer of Rita’s!” He couldn’t believe it, what a coincidence.

GROTH: It does feel especially gratifying when someone who’s not a congenital comics fan reads a book...

WINDSOR-SMITH: Yeah, yeah, it’s a gas! I still get a thrill every time I think about it, and this was probably five years ago. I visited the comics shop where Sergio had bought the book and I puttered about looking for anything interesting. Eventually I gave up and just bought a copy of my own work, Archer and Armstrong #5 or something, as I had no copies of it. The lady behind the counter said “You’re gonna love that, it’s the best comic on the market. It’s hilarious.” I autographed the cover and handed it to her, thanking her for her support. Before she had a chance to question me I left the store. I was grinning to myself, I tell ya. This is what I’m hoping for Storyteller. I used to get letters from Archer and Armstrong fans who just didn’t read comic books, but they adored Archer and Armstrong. Because they weren’t being written down to.

GROTH: The big obstacle is finding those people. Because they don’t go into comic book stores because they don’t read comics.

WINDSOR-SMITH: I’ve got all these fancy plans — whether they come to life, I don’t know, it’s all down to the bloody dollar as it always is — but I want to advertise ... We’re advertising in Wizard, you know? I mean, ****, OK, do it. Advertise in Wizard, why not? Wizard is about comic books. But that’s preaching to the choir. Why not advertise in college newspapers? Advertising by itself really isn’t going to mean that much, but if I could put a really good joke in a college newspaper, something that doesn’t insult somebody’s intelligence, or a really pretty drawing that has that attractiveness that is somehow universal. Sometimes I come up with pictures that are universal — not all the bloody time. It’s kind of hit and miss with me, kind of like Neil Young songs, you know? He’ll come up with a song that will absolutely touch the whole world — and then he does something else that everybody thinks is a piece of dreck. So I had this ideal idea, which again, is on the shaky basis of money, of advertising Storyteller in entirely different mediums. And also if I could just keep going long enough. My first contract with Dark Horse is for 12 issues, and if I haven’t picked up some new and original readers inside of 12 32-page issues, that have more toilet jokes than you can shake a stick at — [laughs] I’m just joking. No actually, I keep doing toilet jokes and I wish I wouldn’t — that’s what comes from growing up in England with Benny Hill on the TV.

GROTH: Well, that’s the thing that’s going to sell it.

WINDSOR-SMITH: [Laughs.] It might. It certainly isn’t going to be the big guns. I try to elevate myself slightly above toilet jokes if I can, but I’ve got to admit there are a lot of them. I’m just hoping I’ll find whatever vacuum was left when Archer and Armstrong died. I’m hoping to find those people again. And I’m going to need even more than that to make this thing a winner. I mean, I need this thing to last for the rest of my career. This is all I want to do.

[Captain Craig]

You misunderstand.
Not "getting it" and being agreeable to seeing the character(s) used a bit different are vastly opposite things.

But thanks for the links anyway.

[mrbrklyn]

You misunderstand.
Not "getting it" and being agreeable to seeing the character(s) used a bit different are vastly opposite things.

But thanks for the links anyway.

But this hasn't been a practice of seeing a character in an new way. This ramping him up to greater and greater powers is a rewrite of the basis of the character. And it is not new. It is lazy writing. Most characters are ramped up in powers as they go along, starting with the original Superman. It takes discipline to keep a character within a its designed structure.

[Askia]

Decided to try out the latest Shadowman seeing as it had a new writer... Going back, the first arc was solid. Then Justin Jordan came in and took a piss on the character. 3 issues into the new arc, and it seems Andy Diggle is intent on keeping Jack as a joke of a character. I'm thinking about dropping it.

[mrbrklyn]

Diggle is intent on keeping Jack as a joke of a character. I'm thinking about dropping it.

Why do you say that? He seems to be on an interesting and mysterious quest at the moment

[Askia]

The last issue I read, he wasn't even worth a demons times as dude walked away with Jack on his knees crying for the demon to fight him.

I say he's a joke because he hasn't had any success and has constantly been saved by the woman(can't remember her name at the moment). He hasn't been able to do anything on his own. Its like, when cannon fodder in his own solo can't even take him seriously, why should I as the reader?

[mrbrklyn]

The last issue I read, he wasn't even worth a demons times as dude walked away with Jack on his knees crying for the demon to fight him.

that was actually interesting

[TheFerg714]

He is not supposed to be! He is supposed to be comic relief!

lol no sir, apparently you don't get it. You don't get to decide what makes Archer, Archer.

Archer's naivety is an almost endless source of comic relief, for sure, but deep down he's a serious character. He's the character that should push the plot forward while Armstrong is the silly one with emotional problems. Imo, the biggest problem with Roberts' A+A is that he focused the plot entirely around Armstrong, which drove the story into outright silliness. A&A is supposed to be this beautiful mixture of comedy, action, and drama, while Roberts' run was ALL comedy.

Also, what was the point of that interview snippet exactly? Was that supposed to prove that Archer should only be used as comedic relief?

But this hasn't been a practice of seeing a character in an new way. This ramping him up to greater and greater powers is a rewrite of the basis of the character. And it is not new. It is lazy writing. Most characters are ramped up in powers as they go along, starting with the original Superman. It takes discipline to keep a character within a its designed structure.

Ugh jeez, who cares? Archer's a little different in VEI than he was in VH1. What's the big deal?
He has one power: he can tap into the akashic record. Yes, that's very powerful, but it's not like he's Superman level yet. As you said, his powers are "ramping up" as they go along. It's not happening all at once. In fact, his powers took a huge step back under Roberts' reign. Where he used to tap into an ancient martial art, he now just punches people.

The last issue I read, he wasn't even worth a demons times as dude walked away with Jack on his knees crying for the demon to fight him.

I say he's a joke because he hasn't had any success and has constantly been saved by the woman(can't remember her name at the moment). He hasn't been able to do anything on his own. Its like, when cannon fodder in his own solo can't even take him seriously, why should I as the reader?

I feel your pain, but I'm hoping this series will prove to us that Jack really wants to turn over a new leaf. I'm giving it just a few more issues too, but mainly because I'm just not into magic superheroes.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://www.newsarama.com/40460-vali...citations.html

[mrbrklyn]

lol no sir, apparently you don't get it. You don't get to decide what makes Archer, Archer.

I think BWS has something to say about it.

[Captain Craig]

https://www.newsarama.com/40460-vali...citations.html

As always I get the monthlies.
No TPB, waiting on the Deluxes. Granted Ninjak vs VEI and Valiant High aren't going to get Deluxes but I'm not getting TPBs

[Dylan Davison]

This last issue of Shadowman was awesome! I loved seeing some of the Loa's past and seeing how it's helping Jack! I'm sure after this next arc Jack will have a way better handle on the Shadow Loa!

[mrbrklyn]

I've been reading the new Valiants hit and miss, and for me the biggest surprise is "Archer & Armstrong." The original dozen or so that Barry Windsor-Smith did in the '90s are on my short-list for best comics runs ever, and while the new series hasn't been as good as that, I've enjoyed it a lot more than I thought was going to be possible.

that is a plus plus...

[mrbrklyn]

This last issue of Shadowman was awesome! I loved seeing some of the Loa's past and seeing how it's helping Jack! I'm sure after this next arc Jack will have a way better handle on the Shadow Loa!

I think the book is developing a good story line and it has movement.