Last edited by LordUltimus; 03-04-2020 at 04:20 PM.
"Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!
I doubt that we are going to see any war in the scale of human vs mutants, just the same old conflict with evil parties.
My problem is with the inevitability of the future, i dont believe it, is too simple, any changed she made and she ends in the same spot, how ?
Lets ignore all the bad futures of the past, both from the X-men and from the Marvel universe because these is Hickman story.
Even then i find hardly suspicious that no matter what Moira does, Nimrod is the result.
I am glad the question of what to do about "defective" mutants got addressed. The whole concept about purposely dying in order to be revived as a "whole" again. Interesting.
Yes this made Krakoa feel VERY cult-like again.
I am glad they kept emphasizing Melody's choice to take part. That was important.
It also humanized the situation some by showing Sam get upset.
Kurt was hinting more about how Krakoa is somehow "not all it's cracked up to be" meh fine.
I liked the weirdness with Doug somehow having Warlock one panel, then not the next. Interesting.
Exodus definitely gave off "High On Being Mutant" vibes but I was here for it.
The Wanda bashing was hilarious and I'm sure is a big reason this thread has 113 pages.
Overall good issue, creepy but also made sense.
Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.
OBEY
You seem to be looking at this in a very black and white way . Is it not possible to be both" more moral" and also less than perfect ?
From the point of view of the "mutant on the steet", Krakoa may well be Utopia , no child Labour ,no slavery , no hunger , no police brutality , plenty of orgies ,etc. Does that mean it does not need the instruments of government ? ( which Xavier called distasteful )
Krakoa can be "morally superior " without being perfect.
I'm sure someone more familiar with the U.S. Could come up with some examples of " moral failure" there and get the U.S. Would remain an example of freedom and other virtues.
Perhaps it's worth mentioning that many Utoias in fiction are based on slave Labour . Not the case on Krakoa but illustrates some ambiguity in the word utopia.
Actually , the more I think about this the more confused I get.
Have the mutants ever claimed moral perfection.?
What morality are we talking about ? Christian ? Kurtz new religion ? Apocalypse , his morality I'm sure is unique.
Christian morality ( mainstream) accepts the role of the state and it's apparatus.
Sorry my mind started wandering.
The mutants are developing their own state , culture and morality , while operating within the international structure and so they will have to compromise. (Worth noting they hope to influence these structures.
I've believed for a long time the mutants should leave Earth and start fresh.
Last edited by Nigel909; 03-05-2020 at 03:42 AM.
The inevitability of the future is dealt with in HOX/POX. Mutants being wiped out by Machines is what is - supposed - to happen, that's the normal future predicated on the human reaction to the rise of mutantkind as their evolutionary successors, the technological break-point for AI occurring at around the same time, and the existence of superhumans giving humanity a bio-engineering solution to natural obsolescence. There's always a war because there's always species survival as a cassus belli. You can't unring that bell.
Moira's problem is that she's just one woman with a lot of knowledge trying to change history against the flow of events. She hasn't succeeded so far because in every life she's tried "one cool trick" at a time and had no back-up once it's failed. Being outlaw superheroes didn't work. Segregation didn't work. Whatever she tried in Life 6 didn't work. Killing off the Trasks didn't work. Inciting Magneto to take over the world didn't work. Helping Apocalypse impose his dystopia on the world didn't work. In every case the existence of mutants led to the exploitation of AI and robotics in order to create a Sentinel army that simply overwhelmed them. That's why her plan this time is to unite ALL of the mutants under a leadership that knows what the future holds and hope that this time it's possible to bully, buy-off and generally stymie the anti-mutant factions amongst humanity long enough for Krakoan mutantkind to become an integral part of Earth culture and/or produce an army of ass-kicking Chimeras to win the war when it starts.
Nimrod is inevitable. In fact it's surprising to me that Orchis wouldn't have already had one. Surely one of the factions within Orchis would have had samples of Nimrod technology from somewhere, or at the very least have had enough knowledge of what Nimrod was to put them on a path to replicate one? The Nimrod from the DOFP timeline was around for a while. Bastion had Nimrod tech within him. Then there were the dozens of Nimrods who came through the temporal rift to attack San Francisco during the Utopian Era. They know what a Nimrod is, and at the end of the day it's just a natural extrapolation of exiting Sentinel technology. All that fighting back successfully against Sentinels does is speed up the day when some bright spark makes that jump to produce a Nimrod and restore humanity's advantage in the Genetic War against mutantkind, which is why one of the secret pre-Krakoan projects Moira, Xavier and Magneto invested in was tracking the kind of technological activity necessary for a Nimrod event.
It is, and the mutants have gone passed that. Humanity has done unspeakable evil things to mutants and mutants are mirroring back x 10. Recently a ruling member of the Quiet Council admitting to destroying an entire age of humanity to win arguments with diplomats. Who was this? Apocalypse.
The average mutant civilian isn't going to know everything Krakatoa does anymore than the average citizen does in other countries, why would you use that as the definitive opinion on the country when you have high profile X-men entrenched in the government? There have been various people like that who are having doubts, why shouldn't their opinions be ignored? We don't know all the specifics about Krakatoa society, at the various levels. It's not like they don't have mutant on mutant crime - there's a series about mutant police detectives.From the point of view of the "mutant on the steet", Krakoa may well be Utopia , no child Labour ,no slavery , no hunger , no police brutality , plenty of orgies ,etc. Does that mean it does not need the instruments of government ? ( which Xavier called distasteful )
Krakoa can be "morally superior " without being perfect.
Xavier is a head of this government, curious how he'd come to that conclusion. The old Professor X is clearly dead, the Xavier who took his place is someone who was broken and corrupted by Moira X.
It's far too early to claim Krakatoa is a utopia.
How does the US doing bad things absolve mutants when they do it? The premise of Krakatoa is that they're superior to mankind yet they repeat our mistakes.I'm sure someone more familiar with the U.S. Could come up with some examples of " moral failure" there and get the U.S. Would remain an example of freedom and other virtues.
Perhaps it's worth mentioning that many Utoias in fiction are based on slave Labour . Not the case on Krakoa but illustrates some ambiguity in the word utopia.
We don't know all the secrets to Krakatoa, this isn't IT. We don't know the details about the transition period, either.
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.
Last edited by LordUltimus; 03-05-2020 at 09:23 AM.
Ok! So I'm a little late! What was the deal with cypher and the guy???
Rereading (again) and this quote from Nightcrawler really encapsulates this new XM-era, for me.
"...Krakoa asks hard questions of me. Every day there's some new, amazing something to believe in...and all it costs is the suspension of everything I used to believe..."
LOVE. IT!!!!
Lord Ewing *Praise His name! Uplift Him in song!* Your divine works will be remembered and glorified in worship for all eternity. Amen!