The C2E2 Spider-man 60th Panel, some interesting things been said.

[Darthfury78]

DeFalco and Frenz were indeed pissed, and actually sought and got approval to imply the version of Mayday used in Spider-Verse wasn't the real one, editorial believed it was only 'fair' to the fans, which shows they do have influence. It ticked off Slott off a lot. Bringing back MC2 Peter with the powers of The Other is actually a pretty awesome idea, it's a shame so little has come of it. Also, we've yet to see Mayday reunite with her father, or even MC2 MJ learn her husband is alive.

The powers of The Other should had remained with Kaine Parker.

[Malachi]

You really need to stop using the word fallacious until you learn how to use it correctly.
By your logic, Dr. Octopus should still be in Spider-Man's body. After all, sales went up when he took over as Superior Spider-Man. Might as well keep him as Spider-Man indefinitely.
The fact is that the marriage is a creative dead-end. Having them be on-again, off-again friends and lovers allows creators avenues to use their romance or not use their romance. If they are married, every creator is stuck with that status quo. And unlike body swaps or even deaths, in comics it's really hard to undo. Why would a comics company create a status quo for their character that can't easily be undone? And the pro-marriage folks are also like "then we want them to have a kid" and now Spider-man is a dad, and that's even harder to undo. The idea that the Spider-Man creators had to figure out how to undo Mary Jane's pregnancy at the end of the Clone Saga and just left it with "maybe she was kidnapped, maybe she died" and then never brought it up again shows why it's such a bad idea.

As a writer and generally creative person I find your views very limited on what is and what is not a "creative dead-end".

The marriage was and is progression. The same way that say Aunt May dying is. Not story progression from a certain point of view as in a plot being introduced and it being followed through but as in life progression.

Marvel wants to be able to reset Peter back to a factory reset(of course this point in time differs depending on who is in charge and also depending in what era that person grew up) then that is the only creative dead-end we need to concern ourselves with. It's the grandfather of all creative dead-end and in the end it is the only one who defines the title.

Marriage in itself as in life progressing is not a creative dead-end. It is the opposite. It opens up new avenues to explore. What it does of course is complicate the flow of the story when everything is factory reset in the sense that Marvel for some very odd reason can't have the character divorce or seperate.

What we really have is two points that often gets confused into one point.

1). We have Peter in a stable long term relationship that Marvel wants to be able to change at a whim.
2). They want to be able to have and remove MJ from the title as they see fit.

What happened after OMD: MJ was out and Peter where never in a long term relationship again until Spencers run. It was never about being able to date or explore other creative directions. It was to achieve freedom by showing that they could restrict the possibilites.

[Darthfury78]

As a writer and generally creative person I find your views very limited on what is and what is not a "creative dead-end".

The marriage was and is progression. The same way that say Aunt May dying is. Not story progression from a certain point of view as in a plot being introduced and it being followed through but as in life progression.

Marvel wants to be able to reset Peter back to a factory reset(of course this point in time differs depending on who is in charge and also depending in what era that person grew up) then that is the only creative dead-end we need to concern ourselves with. It's the grandfather of all creative dead-end and in the end it is the only one who defines the title.

Marriage in itself as in life progressing is not a creative dead-end. It is the opposite. It opens up new avenues to explore. What it does of course is complicate the flow of the story when everything is factory reset in the sense that Marvel for some very odd reason can't have the character divorce or seperate.

What we really have is two points that often gets confused into one point.

1). We have Peter in a stable long term relationship that Marvel wants to be able to change at a whim.
2). They want to be able to have and remove MJ from the title as they see fit.

What happened after OMD: MJ was out and Peter where never in a long term relationship again until Spencers run. It was never about being able to date or explore other creative directions. It was to achieve freedom by showing that they could restrict the possibilites.

I feel that Marvel should have both MJ and Felicia Hardy written out of the story for 5 years. Let's have Betty Brant as Peter's love interest once again. Let's have Jessica Drew, Black Widow, Tigra, and She-Hulk as part of Peter's allies in their respective story arcs. This is in addition to Julia Carpenter. All this poor characterization of existing characters has to stop. If the writer can't do right by MJ and Felicia, write them out of the story altogether.

[Matt Rat]

If the writer can't do right by MJ and Felicia, write them out of the story altogether.

Slott did that for years and people still complained. It didn't matter we were still getting Peter/MJ and marriage content everywhere else, people wanted her and Felicia in the main book, not in Silk or Iron Man.

Let's have Betty Brant as Peter's love interest once again

Betty will soon be a mom, why would Marvel put Peter with her if they won't let him have kids with MJ?

[Darthfury78]

Slott did that for years and people still complained. It didn't matter we were still getting Peter/MJ and marriage content everywhere else, people wanted her and Felicia in the main book, not in Silk or Iron Man.



Betty will soon be a mom, why would Marvel put Peter with her if they won't let him have kids with MJ?

It made no sense whatsoever to make Betty a mom with a Ned Leeds(makes no sense). Poor writing on Spencer's part. The same goes for Jessica Drew and Tigra as moms.

I think that the whole Marvel-616 needs to close down as they had done with Marvel-1610. Let's have a new Marvel Universe that takes place right at the end of the first Marvel Superhero Secret Wars(1984)...

[Matt Rat]

I think that the whole Marvel-616 needs to close down as they had done with Marvel-1610. Let's have a new Marvel Universe that takes place right at the end of the first Marvel Superhero Secret Wars(1984)...

Marvel would be foolish to go the reboot route, look at how badly DC is doing by depending on continuous resets.

[Darthfury78]

Marvel would be foolish to go the reboot route, look at how badly DC is doing by depending on continuous resets.

Not a reboot. Simply to bring Marvel back to how it was in 1984, where the stories left off. It would not be rebooted to the beginning. This was the moment where things began to fall apart, beginning in 1985 Secret Wars ll and X-Factor that brought Jean Grey from the dead. The idea is to take a different direction from the one that lead to how Marvel Comics is today. Characters who died stayed dead, like Norman Osborn.

[Matt Rat]

Characters who died stayed dead, like Norman Osborn.

The closest we got to that in modern day was the 2009 remake of Clone Saga, Norman stayed dead, but Harry didn't, and wound up creating a clone of Norman that would go on to redeem himself.

The newspaper strip also never brought Norman back from the dead, but was fundamentally different in many other respects.

[TinkerSpider]

I linked the thread on this forum where Dan Slott explained that unmarried Spider-Man is set in stone and that remarrying them is a decision that would go higher than the Marvel Comics editor-in-chief.

That's why all this talk about how Spider-Man will be remarried when Tom Brevoort or C B Cebulski retire or move elsewhere is nonsense. We've been told outright that editors, senior editors and even the editor-in-chief do not have the power to make that decision.

Peter and Mary Jane can be a couple in the present day core Marvel Universe comics, but they can't be married.

What is nonsense is believing that corporations never change their policies and that a decision made in 2007 will still be set in stone in 2037 or 2057. That’s not how companies work. That’s not how the world works. That’s not how life works.

Disney has changed its mind multiple time. DC has changed its mind. Marvel even changed its mind in unmarrying Peter and MJ after deciding to marry them.

And Marvel HAS authorized a married Peter! Even a divorced Peter! And the film won an Oscar! But you seem to conveniently ignore these facts.

You can keep quoting from the Book of Dan Slott all you want, but Dan is not God and his word is not infallible. Repeating something over and over again does not make it true. I have no doubt Dan believed what he said, but Dan is, I repeat, not God nor Madame Web. He has no idea what will happen ten, fifteen, twenty years from now. When DiDio wiped out Lois and Clark’s marriage, that was “forever.” He meant it, too. He believed it. If you asked him at the time if the marriage would be restored, he would have said a resounding no.

It was restored. Because plans change, policies change, the marketplace changes.

You kept insisting there is no one who can make the decision, and you are factually wrong. Cebulski’s job is to make those decisions. By continuing to say he can’t, you are saying he isn’t trusted to do his job. That’s rather disrespectful to him IMO. And there are others with the authority: Feige, Alan Bergman and Bob Chapek.

If Bob Chapek wanted Spider-Man to be a purple alien because he believed that would make Disney more money, guess what. He’d be a purple alien tomorrow.

Slott will one day not be employed by Marvel. Brevoort will be gone. Cebulski too. They are middle aged men closer to retirement age than they are to Peter Parker’s age. They will retire or be removed from their position or quit. New people will come in. They will make whatever decisions they need to make to make money. That’s how companies in a capitalist system work. No successful company has set in stone policies that never change because that stops them from being nimble and responsive to the market. Again, you can buy alcohol in Disneyland now. And no alcohol sales for the general public (Club 33 members were an exception) was an unbreakable rule for decades. Things change.

Do I think they will remarry Peter? No. Not as long as the current power clique is there. Do I think policies can and will change and we don’t know what will happen in the long term future? Yes.

I mean, we’re getting a new miniseries set when Peter and MJ are explicitly married, and according to JMD Marvel approached him with the idea. Five, ten years ago that would have been unheard of.

[Matt Rat]

It's clear policy has been shifting at Marvel with the marriage. It's listed amongst Peter's milestone moments for his 60th anniversary, it's been referenced in Ben Reilly: Spider-Man, both it and a powerless Peter Parker, father-to-be, is a driving plot point of The Lost Hunt mini-series, a product of the marriage, Pattern Weaver Annie May Parker, has a role to play over in the Carnage ongoing.

Post-OMD has never had a year to just itself, it's always compared to what came before because what it took away has never been benched or shelved. Even reruns of the newspaper strip from 2014 to present are still ongoing, with a healthy Peter and MJ marriage front and centre. You can downplay it as 'alternate universes', you can downplay Lost Hunt as pre-OMD and a 'period setting', but what you cannot argue is that the marriage is 'never coming back', For all the bluster about the Spider-Marriage 'never coming back', the reality speaks for itself: It never left. And so, the debates continue.

Why keep tutting at us and insisting we 'deal with it and move on' when it's all too evident that money and nostalgia ensures Marvel never will? Marvel want these debates to continue, they don't want the readership to 'move on', Lost Hunt will create new Spider-Marriage fans as well as entertain old ones, it will better acquaint current readers with the concept of 616 MJ as a mom, something Wells is developing, it will give present readers a taste of Peter as an adult with real responsibilities...why would you educate readers about that phase of his life when the current P.R speak is he has to be 'relatable' in more 'delicate' ways that avoid all of those responsibilities?

In short, why didn't they just talk about Lost Hunt to the C2E2 crowd since it was going to tick all the boxes for them that way?

That is the 'mixed signals' I was referring to, they are saying one thing at C2E2, but are doing another thing altogether in November that runs counter to what they were saying.

[Dioman-san]

If they promise the marriage again, at any point, I won't believe it until it actually happens, and even if it happens, I'll wait to see if they make it interesting and not something for bad drama.

Keep in mind that just 4 years ago, in X-Men Gold#30 vol 2, they talked like Kitty would marry Colossus, and then the issue itself had Kitty deciding to not do it at the last moment, and just three months later at DC, with Batman#50 vol 3, the same bullshit happened between Batman and Catwoman.

So yeah, Marvel and DC are the kind of companies to pull the rug under you then laugh, if they promise the marriage is happening again, don't believe them until it actually happens, because there's a very high chance it's bait, even if it's a really stupid bait for them to do, it's good to keep in mind they may be that stupid.

Well some recents marriages work. Rogue/Gambit and Mera/Aquaman were married.

[The BaRoN]

Well some recents marriages work. Rogue/Gambit and Mera/Aquaman were married.

They just killed Gambit in that awful knights of X to end that marriage Lmfao.

[Lee]

What is nonsense is believing that corporations never change their policies and that a decision made in 2007 will still be set in stone in 2037 or 2057. That’s not how companies work. That’s not how the world works. That’s not how life works.

Disney has changed its mind multiple time. DC has changed its mind. Marvel even changed its mind in unmarrying Peter and MJ after deciding to marry them.

And Marvel HAS authorized a married Peter! Even a divorced Peter! And the film won an Oscar! But you seem to conveniently ignore these facts.

You can keep quoting from the Book of Dan Slott all you want, but Dan is not God and his word is not infallible. Repeating something over and over again does not make it true. I have no doubt Dan believed what he said, but Dan is, I repeat, not God nor Madame Web. He has no idea what will happen ten, fifteen, twenty years from now. When DiDio wiped out Lois and Clark’s marriage, that was “forever.” He meant it, too. He believed it. If you asked him at the time if the marriage would be restored, he would have said a resounding no.

It was restored. Because plans change, policies change, the marketplace changes.

You kept insisting there is no one who can make the decision, and you are factually wrong. Cebulski’s job is to make those decisions. By continuing to say he can’t, you are saying he isn’t trusted to do his job. That’s rather disrespectful to him IMO. And there are others with the authority: Feige, Alan Bergman and Bob Chapek.

If Bob Chapek wanted Spider-Man to be a purple alien because he believed that would make Disney more money, guess what. He’d be a purple alien tomorrow.

Slott will one day not be employed by Marvel. Brevoort will be gone. Cebulski too. They are middle aged men closer to retirement age than they are to Peter Parker’s age. They will retire or be removed from their position or quit. New people will come in. They will make whatever decisions they need to make to make money. That’s how companies in a capitalist system work. No successful company has set in stone policies that never change because that stops them from being nimble and responsive to the market. Again, you can buy alcohol in Disneyland now. And no alcohol sales for the general public (Club 33 members were an exception) was an unbreakable rule for decades. Things change.

Do I think they will remarry Peter? No. Not as long as the current power clique is there. Do I think policies can and will change and we don’t know what will happen in the long term future? Yes.

I mean, we’re getting a new miniseries set when Peter and MJ are explicitly married, and according to JMD Marvel approached him with the idea. Five, ten years ago that would have been unheard of.

I simply think the guy who wrote Amazing Spider-Man for about a decade in the post-marriage years, pitched Renew Your Vows, and worked on the character in video games and animation, has a deeper understanding of what Marvel Entertainment wants from the brand, the restrictions in place, and the company's internal politics, than fans on Internet forums do.

Is it technically possible that they could remarry Spider-Man on a permanent basis? Sure. Just as it's technically possible that they could permanently replace T'Challa with a caucasian Black Panther.

Post-OMD has never had a year to just itself, it's always compared to what came before because what it took away has never been benched or shelved. Even reruns of the newspaper strip from 2014 to present are still ongoing, with a healthy Peter and MJ marriage front and centre. You can downplay it as 'alternate universes', you can downplay Lost Hunt as pre-OMD and a 'period setting', but what you cannot argue is that the marriage is 'never coming back', For all the bluster about the Spider-Marriage 'never coming back', the reality speaks for itself: It never left.

When people say it's never coming back, they're specifically talking about the core, regular continuity comic book Marvel Universe, in the present day.

[Matt Rat]

They just killed Gambit in that awful knights of X to end that marriage Lmfao.

And while Arthur will obviously be back, as far as Mera is presently aware, he's been 'killed' and she's widowed

[Frontier]

Marriage or otherwise, I don't think that means fans should settle with badly handled and executed breakup stories like in the current run, especially after Spencer's run.

And does anyone at this point really think there's much more mileage out of a single Peter?