Was never a fan of it, but Bruce and Babs is an especially bad idea in todays social climate.
Last edited by Godlike13; 09-25-2020 at 03:37 PM.
Agreed. And I think this question hits to a core problem with a lot of the canonical (that is, done by DC or its licensees) shipping. A single male hero is OK, or a male hero with other relationships that are at handled as being as important as a romantical relationship. But it's mostly not the case for the female heroes. A woman should, under these patterns, be attached to (and thus in some way under control of) a man.
DC is by far not alone in this, they have inherited it from culture at large. A good girl should have a boyfriend.
From a storytelling standpoint, having Babs jump around between what is for all purposes a set of brothers can work, as long as it is the point of the story. But it's not. It's cheap and lazy storytelling that's only there because the creators want to include a romantic angle, without having to do the work of a romantic angle. So I think the take that Babs is passed around is a perfect take on it. Each relationship, taken on its own, can be made perfectly fine, but they really aren't made fine, and taken together they start to smell.
That's also part of why the original Dixon and Simone Birds of Prey runs were so important, because Babs was allowed to have important relationships with other women, that were treated to be as important as—or more important than—her connection with Dick.
Last edited by kjn; 09-26-2020 at 04:07 AM.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])
However, according to that culture, a good girl shouldn't have many different boyfriends either.
In fact, Dick and Jason have different girlfriends all the time (I don't think they are single a whole year either). So, it will be weird that Barbara is the only one that needs to be single.
In the same way it is weird that (so far) Barbara doesn't seem to have a bed scene with a character that isn't Dick, but Dick has bed scenes with different characters.
PS: A single male hero wasn't exactly so good in that culture either (the male character shouldn't be celibate at least). I have understood it was a problem so big that they created the first Batwoman and Bat-Girl to solve that.
Last edited by Konja7; 09-26-2020 at 04:08 AM.
The problem was that people mistook Bruce and Dick's relationship for homosexual. So they gave them both love interests.
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Yep, which adds another wrinkle to the equation, complicated by that DC is much less capable of introducing and sustaining women as superheroes or sidekicks than they are of introducing men.
AIUI, the original Batwoman and Bat-Girl were created to address the accusations of homo-eroticism between Batman and Robin.
There is also a different dynamic for romantic relationships between the genders. A female character is seen as needing a husband or boyfriend. But for a male character, a wife or girlfriend—or even a one-night-stand—is viewed as a sign of success. Female characters are defined by their relationships to a much larger degree than male characters.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])
I know. That is still related that the culture wouldn't be OK with single male heroes.
My main problem with the argument "it is OK that male heroes are single, but it isn't for female héroes" is with the characters that is used.
I have problems if it is used to show that Barbara should be single, because every male main character in the Batfamily has romantic love interests (or sex, at least) all the time.
PS: Also, it is always sad that the big problem they have with a ronantic relationship between Bruce and Dick was homosexuality. There was a lot of real problems in a romantic relationship there.
Last edited by Konja7; 09-26-2020 at 04:38 AM.
I mean, I understand the dynamic for romantic relationships between the genders is different.
That's why I'm uncomfortable that DC only seems to allow bed scenes for Barbara if these are with Dick (obviously, the opposite isn't true).
However, I don't think the answer is that the female heroes should be single, while the male heroes are allowed to constantly have female love interests (or one-night-stand).
Not to mention that, in Barbara's case, she could be single in her stories, but she will still be linked to Dick (in the "Will They or Won't They?" trope).
Last edited by Konja7; 09-26-2020 at 05:11 AM.
Last edited by Godlike13; 09-26-2020 at 12:05 PM.
Yeah, these things are quite messy. And if we get a return to Oracle, then a lot of the usual narratives for women and relations suddenly gets changed, and that she was depicted as a sexual being (even if objectified) and sorta-dating Dick was a huge thing, because that's something usually denied disabled people.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])
My commentary was connected about the first commentary that says "Can we just have Babs be single for at least a whole year?".
I know Barbara has throwaway boyfriends, like Dick and Jason have throwaway girlfriends. However, I don't usually see people saying Dick or Jason should be single for one year.
I've understood Batgirl comic is marketed to the same audience than Nightwing and Red Hood. And Barbara still has bed scenes with Dick (although I think this doesn't happen in Batgirl comic).
Last edited by Konja7; 09-26-2020 at 12:12 PM.