Maybe Punchline?
Appreciation Thread Indexes
Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman
There's a lot of bitterness that permeates on the sub that Babs is somehow the issue for all their character's problems or lack of spotlight and I feel like I'm just rereading a lot of pseudo-intellectual takes on it in a way to make it look like Babs is a bad character.
I just feel like I'm reading a lot of these "hot takes" lately as and people acting like they're new ideas.
I don't think most people are acting like they are new ideas. Repeating the same discussions over and over and over again is pretty common in most forums that don't move to totally new discussion each week with a new episode, etc. (and even there, it's not uncommon).I just feel like I'm reading a lot of these "hot takes" lately as and people acting like they're new ideas.
Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 05:25 AM.
Last edited by RedQueen; 10-19-2020 at 05:28 AM.
No.
It is true that many people in this thread doesn't like Barbara as Batgirl. It's possible a good amount of them are biased because they like more other character as a Batgirl.
However, I think most people who comment on this thread like Barbara. They may don't like her as Batgirl, but they could like her as Oracle.
Oracle was an aspect and concept so different from Batgirl that isn' t weird there is a division in the fandom. Not to mention the way DC threat these two aspects.
I remember there was a time the forum have two appreciation threads for Barbara, one for Oracle and one for Batgirl.
Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 05:36 AM.
Yeah I get that vibe. It's usually nothing to with Oracle, it's when they bring up Cass or Steph then you get a clear indication of what their narrative is really trying to say. I've seen a lot of arguments hide behind the Oracle argument when they really want Steph etc to be Batgirl.
I enjoy Babs as Batgirl and Oracle, I'm advocate to appear it whatever shape of form she is. As long she gets good writing.
And that's an egregiously wrong statement and I am proof of that. Although it is a sad state on the perception females within the Batfandom. I hated Steph as Batgirl, as I thought it was a demotion, and I adore old-school Steph (didn't really care for her more chirpy/quippy personality as Batgirl, either). I don't like prefer Cass as Batgirl and would go with Black Bat (I don't want Batgirl to be a legacy, as I'm not generally fond of them and Orphan is just a terrible name), though I have little interest in her. Barbara as someone who used to be Batgirl is great. Then she becomes Oracle. Then she should have her paralysis reversed and go back into the field. But not as Batgirl. I hate her de-aging and she's a 30+ year old woman who shouldn't newly take on a codename with "girl" in it. Plus, when it did happened, it coincided with a personality and tone-of-comic change, though that's been reversed some now.Nah if they don’t like her as batgirl is proably cuz they are attached to either steph or Cass
Any female who is not batgirl is a bat extra
This is also true. Many much prefer her as Oracle. I've liked her in different eras as both. But there is nothing she can do as Oracle while paralyzed that she can't do while not. And I like the visual action of her in the field. And I have major issues with how she was paralyzed (thankfully other writers managed to do something good with it), do find a make-world aspect to it outside the BoP (my favorite usage for her as Oracle), and really hate the double standard where all the male Batheroes get healed from similar injuries and female one doesn't.Oracle was an aspect and concept so different from Batgirl that isn' t weird there is a division in the fandom. Not to mention the way DC threat these two aspects.
Last edited by Tzigone; 10-19-2020 at 09:06 AM.
When New52 was announced, I was expecting that Barbara as Batgirl will mantain her experience as Oracle even if the age is reduced. However, DC really seems to want Barbara to be younger and inexperienced when she is Batgirl.
Honestly, I think many Barbara fans want her to be Batgirl because it is a recognizable identity. So, it gives more prominence to Barbara in the Batfamily.
In itself, Barbara could be back in the field with a totally new identity. However, if Barbara has a less recognizable identity, it is possible she will be relegated (as it happens with Stephanie and Cassandra)
That's why many Barbara fans wouldn't want a different identity from Batgirl.
Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 09:34 AM.
Yeah. Many times fans only worry about their favorites, so they wouldn't really care about other characters. I think that is valid.
The annoying is when they try to hide their indifference by saying that the best thing for the character is an option that is not really convenient for the character (in fact, they just don't want this character to not affect their favorite character).
Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 10:19 AM.
Yep. It predates the reboot, of course. She was de-aged years before that. To a certain degree, I can understand it, if not like it - they don't want Batman to get too old, so the others (particularly Dick earliest and who aged most) needed to get younger. But it went way further than that. She was recast as much younger when she became Batgirl, and similarly aged to Dick. I don't know if that was to capitalize on B:TAS or just a generalized effort to make Batgirl younger in earlier post-COIE (where she was 3-6 years older than Dick, depending on a couple different contradictory stories in the 1980s). And I don't know if Batman's increasingly dominant status had anything to do with it but after the age change in latter post-COIE era when her younger days as Batgirl were explored, the dynamic was entirely different than it had been originally. She was recast a protege of Batman - something she never was originally. I hated Batgirl Year One - admittedly don't remember most of it now. I do remember her idiotic thing with the rope and she would have dead practically day one without Batman, which I didn't like. Her and Dick retconned earlier in their history (which I think Dixon did, originally, but am unsure of), which also don't care for. Worst of all to me was Batman knowing her identity immediately and her not knowing his. Complete power imbalance that I do not at all care for. Not to mention the rope later, which is basically him giving "permission" for her to work. I hate new heroes having to get permission from old heroes to work (another reason for liking Steph defying them) since those old heroes didn't have to get permission or approval from anyone. Though I'll acknowledge it's murkier here, since she wears his symbol.When New52 was announced, I was expecting that Barbara as Batgirl will mantain her experience as Oracle even if the age is reduced. However, DC really seems to want Barbara to be younger and inexperienced when she is Batgirl.
How why the heck Catwoman needed to basically be Dick's age instead of Batman's when rebooted is a question I have no answer to, but it's not relevant to this thread.
Last edited by Tzigone; 10-19-2020 at 10:21 AM.