Wonder Woman #37 SPOILERS

[Punisher007]

She could have, but we don't know because that was not shown. And so this goes down as yet another example of how we are told that Wonder Woman is this amazing warrior who can keep up with Superman or better because of her superior martial skills but when it comes to the point there is no actual visual evidence on the page to back it up.





Without evidence her statement could be taken to be merely ironic [she is not holding the lasso, by the way]. And as her boyfriend Superman would have to be a special kind of lunatic to contradict Diana on this point in the mood she is clearly in. Even without that massive error in judgement he still gets his head bitten off...and if he actually needed a shower the evidence is he would be scrubbing his own back.



Against Zod and Faora she had the element of surprise. She knew all their abilities as Kryptonians, they had no real knowledge of hers. Even so, she needs Clark to get back in the fight. She can't beat both of them single handed.

But assuming we give that as an example of her having very good fighting skills...now go on an name the other 999 times it has actually be shown on the page in the New52 she is a better in a fight than Clark. With scans, please.

Oh, so if she loses it's proof that DC wants to reduce her in contrast to Superman. But if she does well, like the Zod/Faora fight, then there's some caviat that makes it not as impressive an accomplishment How convenient, it almost sounds like a double-standard. And yes, she was doing quite well against BOTH of them, while Clark got his butt kicked.

[cranger]

This has happened. "New52", Totally Serious.

That was Scott Lobdell, someone should check the trade to see if DC fixed it.

[Ascended]

Skipping all these pages because I really dont have time to read them all....

Finally had a chance to read the issue last night.

It was okay. Better than the Finch's first issue at least. It flowed decently, the dialogue was a little more natural and better paced. Honestly, it was better than I expected it to be. I had some really low expectations after last issue of course, but still.

Word is this issue is getting a lot of negative reviews, and while its far from the best thing around, its forming up to be consistent in an average sort of way, and if nothing else, better than what Diana was getting post-Simone.

I figured I'd be taking this off my pull list after this issue, given how bland the first issue was and the fact that so many threads from Azzarello's run were ignored or dropped (Zola, Strife, ect). However, I'll stick around for another issue, and there's a strong possibility that I'll stick around for a couple issues after that, if the quality keeps improving like it did here.

Still not a creative team I want to see long term, and ignoring so much of what came before rubs me the wrong way (thats been a thorn in the franchise's side for seventy years!) but for a six issue fill-in? Its passable so far. And its early enough that the previous supporting cast might still show up.

[DIVINITY]

I didn't comment on the last issue, I figured I'd wait awhile, like, end of first arc, but two issue's in, I don't like it, dialogue or art... Hopefully it'll get better, not holding my breath though...

Donna's back, will see how that goes...

[TimothyLaskey]

My biggest problems with this so far are 1) Characterization 2) The trite and sexist "Can She Have It All?" trope as the crux of the plot. These two are feeding off one another, which makes the flaws even more noticeable. The naked Donna Troy at the end did no favors for this team, either. Good grief.

First off, she has had this struggle before, and the answer is something she knew the whole time, even in moments of doubt. Wonder Woman follows her heart, even when it's tugged in a thousand directions. We've covered this ground before, as recently as Azz's run. It's nothing we haven't seen before and it's not being executed very well at all.

But that struggle is part of one of the most intriguing hooks in her character: A Warrior Queen who also stands of love and justice. The God of War with a lover's heart and a warrior's soul. Here, she's manic, quick to anger nearing impetuousness. She isn't an Amazon fighting for love and peace. She's a single mom trying to have a successful career. She's Ally McBeal struggling to choose between two lovers: Paradise Island and "The World of Men," which is where this falls apart. If you want to make that allegory, go for it, but you have to do it in a way that still shows Wonder Woman dealing with it. Not a character that shows only traces of resemblance to the character. It doesn't help that they went out of their way to say that they didn't think WW was a feminist. That statement only serves to highlight the glaring failures here so far.

You managed to sum up the negative feelings I've had on these past two issues. I feel like I'm reading the Jodi Picoult WW again. I.m going out on a limb with this theory, but think there is a weird difference in the way male and female writers approach this character.

Maybe she represents something wildly different to each -- on the one hand, men approach Wonder Woman as a fantasy-born Amazon, who's stronger, faster, smarter and more beautiful than they are -- a goddess. And we've had tons of men write and shape the destiny of this character for decades, and explore the spectrum of what an Amazonian superhero could be. Some make her more bloodthirsty than forgiving; some emphasize her caring nature as the "mom" of the superhero pantheon. But most shy away from the feminist ideas that Marston installed, inspired by the women in his own life and from the Suffragist movement. Maybe men force themselves to think outside the box more when writing WW? Maybe they approach her with this sense of reverence, as in "I can't screw this up, it's Wonder Woman the pressure is on"?

Women writers have approached her as "ok, what can I do to make this 'male power fantasy' into a REAL woman?" They show Diana's flaws-- she doesn't know how to pump gas, she's never had a boyfriend, she can't handle the responsibility, she just literally can't even. And that makes her sympathetic, it grounds her in our own familiar problems. I think it usually comes off as jarring and heavy-handed change, done so out of nowhere. Precisely because Wonder Woman is designed to be a fully-formed character without having to learn the things she already should know. If she can command her sisters in complex battle formations, surely she should be able to multi-task better than us non-trained humans. (I guess I have to use Piccoult and Finch as the only examples of women writers since Gail Simone's run was a nice middle ground, so to speak.)

It's that tendency that all writers, both male and female, seem to want to tear down the foundations and begin at square one that I hate. Seemingly new writers on Wonder Woman aren't familiar with what has already been done with her. There's a "fish out of water" theme that should always be present -- coming from another culture, she should have some trouble navigating the modern world sometimes, but it should be more of a bemused, "mortals are so zany" type of curiosity. The way the tv series played it. Diana was pleasantly bemused by the ideosycrasies of our modern slang and behaviors. But she was never shown as anything but capable when push came to shove. Any doubt she felt was well cleared up by the end of the episode. Diana is a quick study.

Here we are, two episodes in and the character's still got concerns.

[brettc1]

Oh, so if she loses it's proof that DC wants to reduce her in contrast to Superman. But if she does well, like the Zod/Faora fight, then there's some caviat that makes it not as impressive an accomplishment How convenient, it almost sounds like a double-standard. And yes, she was doing quite well against BOTH of them, while Clark got his butt kicked.

She was, but she didn't say to Clark, get out of here, I've got this. She needed Clark to help. It's not a double standard to look at evidence on the page. Did she beat both of them? No. Are we now arguing that Clark could not beat either Zod or Faora without help? If do, please post that opinion on the Superman forum while I got make popcorn.

We've seen her beat Supergirl...mostly. That's a start. But Supergirl is not her cousin.

We can assume she beat what's-his-name from Krypton and Mongul. But again, we aren't actually shown it. We get one page when all is over. That strong circumstantial evidence but again, circumstantial evidence seems to make up 99% of what folks cheering for WW have to work with. Meanwhile Superman tears Doomsday apart with his bare hands and bench presses planets.

You could say "hey, this is a Superman comic she was fighting in." Sure. But first, they could have shown is the fight without taking any of his story out - they just have to stop wasting space with huge panels. And second, even in her OWN book Dian doesn't get SHOWN being awesome. All we get is a throw away line and Supermsn deflecting every Attack with apparent ease and not breaking a sweat.

Superman doesn't sweat? Well that would be a great sign right there. Fighting Wonder Woman actually making Clark break a sweat. Too much to hope for, apparently.

If you hate caviat's, write to DC about them giving showing how she gets a clean win over a Kryptonian who is not in high school Show me her pinning Superman with her legendary skills -on r better yet, knocking him out. AND with no escape clause that he was holding back, or mind controlled, or weakened by Kryptonite or some vulnerability to magic.

And don't even bother saying "some folks will never be happy." I just gave you the criteria for my happiness

[Vanguard-01]

Oh, so if she loses it's proof that DC wants to reduce her in contrast to Superman. But if she does well, like the Zod/Faora fight, then there's some caviat that makes it not as impressive an accomplishment How convenient, it almost sounds like a double-standard. And yes, she was doing quite well against BOTH of them, while Clark got his butt kicked.

Thank you!

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees this.

[brettc1]

Was she doing well against Zod and Faora? Yes. Was she doing better than Clark? Yes. Did she win a knockout? No.

Was she doing well against Clark this issue. I am told she was. Do I have visual evidence to corroborate that? No.

[Sacred Knight]

Why is it only impressive if she knocks them both out? Fact is she was beating them up two on one. I don't really see why there has to be a KO factor for it to mean something. I think that's what others mean when they wonder why there's special caveats attached to things that Diana does.

[brettc1]

Why is it only impressive if she knocks them both out? Fact is she was beating them up two on one. I don't really see why there has to be a KO factor for it to mean something. I think that's what others mean when they wonder why there's special caveats attached to things that Diana does.

Good question and entirely reasonable

Anybody can do well in a fight at the outset, but it's the last fighter standing who takes away the win.

Good example - Rocky 3. Dolph Lundgren spends the first few rounds just hammering Stallone. On points, like Diana against Zod and Faora, he is ahead. But he doesn't win.

Another example - Raiders of the Lost Ark. When Indianna is fighting the big Nazi there is a sequence where Indy lands a flurry of blows that leave the big man bloody. You are sure our hero's got it sewn up, but then the guy just shrugges it off and knocks Indy on his ass. Dr Jones gets the win by ducking at the right moment as the whirling prop comes round.

In comics- TDKR4. In the final confrontation, Bruce spends quite a few pages getting in all the big hits, then Clark starts to wail on him. Bruce wins using the Kryptonite. Despite his early good showing he can't take Clark physically.

Could Diana KO Faora or Zod? Maybe - it is implied she can but there is nothing to show it on the page. Which (to bring things back on topic) is what we have in this issue.

[brettc1]

On a seperate point, where did the baby that was murdered come from? Was there a sex raid? Has it suddenly been 30 years already?

[numberthirty]

On a seperate point, where did the baby that was murdered come from? Was there a sex raid? Has it suddenly been 30 years already?

So far, I don't think we have much in the way of clues.

[cranger]

On a seperate point, where did the baby that was murdered come from? Was there a sex raid? Has it suddenly been 30 years already?

It is unclear as to whether the baby 'died' or not or was just 'aged' in the process, although the baby's mother, who I think was Derinoe's daughter, was clearly killed (it was the mother who was killed by the dagger). Where the baby came from, and who Derinoe is, is probably something we will learn more about. Hopefully.

[brettc1]

It is unclear as to whether the baby 'died' or not or was just 'aged' in the process, although the baby's mother, who I think was Derinoe's daughter, was clearly killed (it was the mother who was killed by the dagger). Where the baby came from, and who Derinoe is, is probably something we will learn more about. Hopefully.

It was the woman who was killed? Wow, I must have totally misread that.

Edit - yep, you are right. Well, that is one less thing then

[HsssH]

I think we are more likely to see Diana shown as better fighter in the upcoming BvS movie than in the comics.