Is Disney going to shut down Marvel Comics?

[skyvolt2000]

Okay I'll bite. What made them great?

You will never get that answer from folks who NEVER read the books in question.

Because that is NOT the first time that claim has been tossed and the reply never points out anything SPECIFIC.

It's always generalize comments or focus on stuff that has NOTHING to do with the book.

What would these retailers do if Marvel pulled all their line and started selling digital only? They'd go out of business that much quicker. But hey just keep on pushing them towards that reality.

Take Marvel & DC away-they still have everybody else around. What you will see is a REMOVAL of the folks causing issues.

Because all they care about is Marvel and what their books have in them. Remove Marvel-they are not going to attack other books.

Last year it was SJW content killing Marvel now its variant covers. The guy says that Marvel should be trying to get new readers on board after complaining that all the new characters were bad for business.

They want to be PANDERED to.

They want the stuff that THEY approved of.

And they don't care that a lot of the stuff they fuss about is in OTHER companies books.

If they hate the LGBT content in Iceman-I can name 5 books that would have them going NUTS.

If 2 variants on a Marvel book is too much-Zombie Tramp average 9 a month. Yes a 5K book had that many.

[dreyga2000]

I wasn't really suggesting that they go 100% digital (although I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case in a far off future), but that single-issues should be marketed in the digital form, while the physical market focus on trades. If trade sales keep growing while floppy sales keep shrinking, it just seems like a natural step to go in that direction, IMO. I could be wrong, but I do think this could be a better way to sell comics and avoid so many books to rot on the shelves. Now, I don't expect this to happen overnight, obviously. But I think it could be done in baby steps. Titles like Batman and Spider-Man would still sell floppies, but many others would skip that format. Hence why I mentioned the Marvel Digital Originals line, which is doing exactly that for Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Daughters Of The Dragon and Cloak & Dagger. Not sure how that project is doing, but I guess time will tell.

Honestly, that does sound pretty brilliant. I imagine that without the cost of printing and ship floppies they could greatly increase their profit margins. The only real cost to them is paying the creative team and maintaining the site.

[Holt]

Can one of you comicsgaters that keep posting about what made comics great please answer the multiple poster asking just what that is? I mean you guys must know because it looks like at least two of you have posted about it. Strangely none of you have responded when pressed on what it was.

There's a lot of buzzwords and coded language I've begun to notice in those types of articles. They've realized how whack their rhetoric sounds, so they try to spin it as "unqualified creators" or "creators who weren't even fans of comics before this" (which sounds a lot like the Fake Geek Girl drama that used to be a thing a few years ago), and of course "Fan favorites being done away with in favor of new characters no one wants!" You can make a Bingo square out of that.

"Identity politics!" is the free square.

[Inversed]

Marvel and DC will never actually shut down for one simple reason, the trades. Those are still making money, and they wanna still be able to sell and produce them, especially for re-prints of their best selling trades.

Not to mention, we know for a fact both companies do have books that are incredibly successful. If things do end up getting really bad, they may cut down on the amount of books they sell, but they ain't getting rid of everything.

Also, I think the biggest problem with us as consumers on the outside judging which books "are the more successful" based just on Diamond figures, is that we don't know the budget for each issue. We don't know how much money it costs for them to produce, say, Amazing Spider-Man, to something like, Moon Girl And Devil Dinosaur. And the company also presumably as their own "estimates" for how much they want it to make for it to be successful to them. But we'll never know that, so it's harder for us to judge when all we're going by is "our opinion of what is successful"

[DragonsChi]

I'm not sure what it has to be about politics or new characters or whatever else. Seems like every-time these discussions come up there is a laundry list of excuses and yet the sales are still where they are. Retailers are still complaining about Marvel tactics that forces them to purchases the first 3 issues of any title before they know they will sale and then can't return them afterwards. So on and So on.

There are more people either willing to put down their imaginary enemy or be Marvel Zombies in threads like these then talk about what the retailers are saying and what the sales numbers are reflecting.

[Arsenal]

But we don’t have all the sales numbers, just the floppies. You can’t make an accurate assessment over anything when working with just a quarter of the relevant data.

[skyvolt2000]

You mean besides the possibility that some people liked the comic books from years ago more than what is produced these days?

At least from what I have seen. Most don't know JACK about Marvel comics's past.

They can't tell you anything. They have to rely on HEARSAY and certain folks MAKING stuff up.

[DragonsChi]

But we don’t have all the sales numbers, just the floppies. You can’t make an accurate assessment over anything when working with just a quarter of the relevant data.

And yet people are quick to shut people down with only a quarter of the data instead of discussing the date we do have. How many articles of declining sales, creators getting booted, book numbers dropping, retailers being mishandled, and stores shutting down do we need before the conversation is had?

And I mean a real discussion not quick quips of people who think they are more clever then they actually are.

[Midnight_v]

Okay I'll bite. What made them great?

Adherence to the heroes journey for one.
Inclusion of the archetypes that populate myth from day one as well. . .
The fact that aside from a blurb on the title, no one in the book has to go on about how "Ah-mazing" your new hero is.
another thing is that the heroes suffer hard failures, personal failures that they have to overcome, but....

but...

But really lets be honest.
Skyvolt is right, everyone wants to be pandered to.
So when creators say things like "Drown in a bucket of hobo piss" X-vengers writer and "Feats upon my ass" - Moonknight writer ; in ADDITION to swearing allegiance to authoritarian leftist politics, that are at least somewhat antithetical to
a big chunk of your readership. They don't feel pandered to. They feel vengeful.
So they tighten the wallets, find other entertainment options... and down comics on the internet, and in person.


These ideas like "representation matters" and "commitment to diversity" give carte blanche to many cowards holding grudges to come out of the woodwork on both sides.
I for one wonder... what the hell was everyone wanting a change from the classic heroes all along doing? Just seething because their favorite wasn't getting more play?

So yeah I have this to ask:

The same question. What made the old marvel so great?
Especially if you've been skulking around for years pissed off that there wasn't *Free Square* that you think was needed.

[Arsenal]

And yet people are quick to shut people down with only a quarter of the data instead of discussing the date we do have. How many articles of declining sales, creators getting booted, book numbers dropping, retailers being mishandled, and stores shutting down do we need before the conversation is had?

And I mean a real discussion not quick quips of people who think they are more clever then they actually are.

What’s there to gain from discussing the data we do have when said data is practically worthless without all the data don’t have to give it proper meaning? Sure we can all sit here and pretend we understand what these numbers mean but what good really comes from it?

[DragonsChi]

What’s there to gain from discussing the data we do have when said data is practically worthless without all the data don’t have to give it proper meaning? Sure we can all sit here and pretend we understand what these numbers mean but what good really comes from it?

Why not start with the store owner with one of the biggest chain of comic stores in the U.S. saying that sales are down and that retailers are being manipulated to the extent of almost being robbed by the publisher creating the books. Then see where we get from there.

[Tendrin]

'authoritarian leftist politics', lol.

[Lee Stone]

Why not start with the store owner with one of the biggest chain of comic stores in the U.S. saying that sales are down and that retailers are being manipulated to the extent of almost being robbed by the publisher creating the books. Then see where we get from there.

So... retailers are spending more on comics, but sales are down...
Maybe they shouldn't spend as much.

I think retailers are gonna blow the doomsday horn because they've become accustom to being the only source for comics for 20 years.
Now with Walmart, digital, libraries, bookstores... They feel threatened.
Especially when some of their customers decide to switch their choice of comics supply out of convenience, whether it's not having to drive an hour out of their way or to get a cheaper price.

[Prof. Warren]

Why not start with the store owner with one of the biggest chain of comic stores in the U.S. saying that sales are down and that retailers are being manipulated to the extent of almost being robbed by the publisher creating the books. Then see where we get from there.

One retailer with an obvious ax to grind and dubious points to make.

[DragonsChi]

Did you read the article? Sometimes they have no other choice but to buy a lot or buy books they are unsure will sell.

Finally, I call for the first THREE issues of any new series to be fully, no fee, no hoop, returnable from ALL publishers. This includes one-shots and mini-series. The only way I see to encourage publishers to be cautious and sober about what they put on to the market (and how they promote it) is to make sure there is a financial incentive to do so, and I think that returns are the mechanism with which to do that – where we are all sharing skin in the game

FOC needs to be 100% firmly bolted down and locked no later than noon on Fridays. This includes each and every cover. Absolutely no changes should be added after this time, and every listing that doesn’t include all art and all information should then be 100% returnable (even if that’s out of Diamond’s end)

Without a truly exceptional and out of the ordinary reason, every comic should be listed in PREVIEWS for initial order. Comics that first get listed on FOC for the first time would then be fully 100% returnable, as we have no way to poll customer data to determine the proper orders.

Stop mixing SKUs for things like minimum orders and chart reporting. Combining SKUs defeats critical economic Darwinsim needed for a healthy marketplace, and sends clearly distorting messages about how and what is selling. Each and every line item should stand on its own individually, and if there are variant covers that do not, or can not, meet those paltry $2500 wholesale orders, then it should not be allowed access to the national marketplace. There’s absolutely no reason to waste everyone’s time, energy and bandwidth for individual covers that less than 200 accounts are purchasing. Publishers should handle those sales directly with those retailers without involving the national marketplace