DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[LordUltimus]

You mean to tell me The Care Bears was political? My childhood is ruined.

Oh, come on, "sharing is caring"? Socialist propoganda if I ever heard it.

[The Darknight Detective]

Name recognition and popularity of the characters is important, but those things only go so far. We saw this happen before; Batman v. Superman had one of the highest opening weekends of all time, yet it sank like a rock in its second weekend and ultimately fell below studio expectations because it had negative word of mouth that ended up discouraging repeat viewing. And then the sequel outright tanked despite the popularity of its characters and Wonder Woman having had her own hit movie by that point. By contrast, Joker has had absolutely incredible repeat viewing because of stellar word of mouth, and Joaquin Phoenix's performance absolutely contributed to that.

It is in much the same way Robert Downey Jr. is not a huge box office draw on his own (his last non-Marvel movie flopped), yet his performance absolutely contributed to the character of Iron Man becoming so popular among audiences. People genuinely connected with Joker as a film, and Phoenix's performance is a big part of that.

I never said anything contrary to what you posted, though. My point was that it was always going to be successful due to its small budget. How successful was the only question - it appears we know the answer now.

[Pinsir]

It is in much the same way Robert Downey Jr. is not a huge box office draw on his own (his last non-Marvel movie flopped), yet his performance absolutely contributed to the character of Iron Man becoming so popular among audiences. People genuinely connected with Joker as a film, and Phoenix's performance is a big part of that.

In 2008 though, there was only one cbm that people were praising for its acting and it wasn't Iron Man 1. It took years for Iron Man to gain that sort of pop culture status, through like, 8 films or something. Even then, I don't want to go all Scorsese on this, but there is a big difference between Robert Downy Jr. acting and Phoenix's. You can like a character and how its portrayed by the actor, but that doesn't mean its great, I mean, one of the oldest criticism of Robert Downy Jr.'s Iron Man is that it always feels like he's playing himself.

Your assumption is probably correct that people came away from this film liking the acting, but speaking of the company I brought to the theatre with me, they didn't see the film because of that. They didn't know that it was an homage to 70's cinema, a character study or were aware even of the setting. I've heard that a lot of people were ignorant of what the movie actually was, encouraged no doubt by the hysteria surrounding the film, with some thinking this was an ultra-violent, incel flick.

[Holt]

In 2008 though, there was only one cbm that people were praising for its acting and it wasn't Iron Man 1. It took years for Iron Man to gain that sort of pop culture status, through like, 8 films or something.

Yeah, no. That's patently untrue. Read any review for the movie and you'll see people praising RDJ's performance as one of the major highlights in the first Iron Man. His acting absolutely contributed to the film being as big a hit as it ended up being and as popular as the character Tony Stark ultimately became.

Even then, I don't want to go all Scorsese on this, but there is a big difference between Robert Downy Jr. acting and Phoenix's.

For the sake of this comparison? There isn't. The initial statement was that the acting was irrelevant because character and brand name sell these movies, not the performers, and I said that was incorrect. Like I said previously, if it were solely about the brand name and the popularity of the characters and not other factors as well, Amazing Spider-Man, 2, Batman v. Superman and Justice League all would've been the big mega Avengers-level hits the studios thought they would be when they greenlit them.

Your assumption is probably correct that people came away from this film liking the acting, but speaking of the company I brought to the theatre with me, they didn't see the film because of that.

And I know people who said they saw it exactly because of that.

[stargazer01]

"Bloggers and haters" wouldn't have meant anything to them had it not been for those poor legs I mentioned. Hence picking a tone and creative team that suits the specific character better than the latter. Which is why they've had tremendous success recently with Aquaman and Joker.

Snyder fans always blame bloggers and haters for his DC movies not doing great at the BO. You should blame general audiences who weren't impressed or who got bored with his movies and didn't recommend them to their friends. If BvS had made over a billion, I'm sure WB would have continued with the dark and bleak Snyder-murder universe because all they care about is $$$.

[manwhohaseverything]

Snyder fans always blame bloggers and haters for his DC movies not doing great at the BO. You should blame general audiences who weren't impressed or who got bored with his movies and didn't recommend them to their friends. If BvS had made over a billion, I'm sure WB would have continued with the dark and bleak Snyder-murder universe because all they care about is $$$.

Hang on! Where is the murder in the snyder movies apart from the villain's side?dude, snyder movies aren't dark,Atleast for me. I mean, snyder movies are dark something like berserk is hell on earth.ok,the colour pallette might be a little too washed out. Other than that it isn't dark. They are just too selfserious.

[jetengine]

Hang on! Where is the murder in the snyder movies apart from the villain's side?dude, snyder movies aren't dark,Atleast for me. I mean, snyder movies are dark something like berserk is hell on earth.ok,the colour pallette might be a little too washed out. Other than that it isn't dark. They are just too selfserious.

Superman levels a city, BVS Batman blatantly murders tons of people

[Thomas Crown]

You know, taking into account how Toby "good movies work better" Emmerich is a two-faced liar, I'm amazed he still didn't claim that "Joker" was his idea all along. Just like his buddy Geoff Johns tried to take all the credit for "Wonder Woman" success for himself.

[jetengine]

You know, taking into account how Toby "good movies work better" Emmerich is a two-faced liar, I'm amazed he still didn't claim that "Joker" was his idea all along. Just like his buddy Geoff Johns tried to take all the credit for "Wonder Woman" success for himself.

Yes yes Johns killed the Snyderverse *yawn*

[Agent Z]

Superman levels a city, BVS Batman blatantly murders tons of people

You spelled Zod's name wrong. As for Batman, bvs is hardly the first movie where he killed people.

[jetengine]

You spelled Zod's name wrong. As for Batman, bvs is hardly the first movie where he killed people.

Superman could of taken it out of the city. He didnt. Metropolis was annihilated.

[krazijoe]

Superman levels a city, BVS Batman blatantly murders tons of people

Avengers did that too, but it was in vibrant colors instead of gray and subdued colors...

[Bloxer]

Avengers did that too, but it was in vibrant colors instead of gray and subdued colors...

A big difference is the Avengers went out their way to save people, tried to keep the fighting away from civilians, things Superman didn't do and unlike Superman didn't have the ability to take the fight somewhere else.
Context matters you know.

[krazijoe]

A big difference is the Avengers went out their way to save people, tried to keep the fighting away from civilians, things Superman didn't do and unlike Superman didn't have the ability to take the fight somewhere else.
Context matters you know.

And you don't think Superman went out of his way to save people? He only did something he is morally against to save people. Talk about context...

[Bloxer]

And you don't think Superman went out of his way to save people? He only did something he is morally against to save people. Talk about context...

Snapping Zod's neck at the end to save like 4 people does little when he and Zod were throwing each other into building and fighting in city streets while doing nothing to try and minimize the damage.