Has Xavier's dream changed?

[rcaguy]

I'd definitely say the Dream has become unrecognizable due to the changes in both the man and what mutantdom considers coexistence. Let's look at things on a spectrum.


Oppression <Mutants being actively exterminated (Mutants heavily losing) --- Mutants as Subordinate ---- Humans & Mutants Coexisting (No Advantage/Privilege for either side) --- Mutants Thriving --- Humans as Subordinate --- Humans being actively exterminated> Mutant Supremacy

If the traditional dream is smack dab in the middle, Charles and most of mutantdom's leadership choosing Survival above all else has led us to the 'Mutants Thriving' stage. Some on the council (former and current members) would absolutely love to nudge things along to humans being subordinate to mutants in all things (Emma, Magneto, Sebastian Shaw) while others want to go all the way to exterminating humans (Exodus, Mystique, Destiny, Apocalypse) and Sinister doesn't give a ****.

Now, here's where it's interesting. Charles THINKS he is for the 'smack dab in the middle' but he's actually comfortable with 'Humans as Subordinate' if it means his people are safe and enjoying their gifts. The real wrinkles are Nightcrawler, Storm, and Kate. Nightcrawler and Kate would be the most likely on the council to call out any effort to slide any further to the right side of that spectrum. Kurt's empathy and compassion is his strength, and Kate flat out has human family that would suffer. Storm... is a little colder than those two, and has voted alongside the villains on a number of things. I'd put her in the Charles camp where she says 'co-existence', but totally wouldn't fight if things settled at 'Humans Subordinate'.

tl;dr - The dream is dead. The focus is entirely on survival.

The orginal dream died in "Days Of Futures Past". Pretty much everything since then has been "What Do You Do About It?"

[red winter]

My favorite X-Men were Warpath, Nightcrawler, and Colossus and I'm looking forward to the Thunderbird book that being said I think Xavier has given up on the dream of coexisting with humans to the survival of mutant kind

[Micabe]

I don't recall anyone ever describing Graydon Creed as a recessive mutant.

Now there's a person I've totally forgotten about, Graydon Creed.

[king of hybrids]

One thing to consider is that even when Xavier wanted Mutants and Humans to live together in peace… he always believed that mutants were superior and that they would gradually replace humans entirely in time.

His dream was ultimately less of ‘living in harmony and forging the future together’ than it was ‘holding humanity’s hand as they gracefully and contentedly step into that good night’

[Zelena]

One thing to consider is that even when Xavier wanted Mutants and Humans to live together in peace… he always believed that mutants were superior and that they would gradually replace humans entirely in time.

His dream was ultimately less of ‘living in harmony and forging the future together’ than it was ‘holding humanity’s hand as they gracefully and contentedly step into that good night’

If so, he didn’t make a good job of it during a while…

If he thinks, as a scientist, that the mutants will replace the humans, it would be pretentious for him to know in how much time this would take place… In the meanwhile, there will be a period of cohabitation between humans and mutants, two “species” on the same planet.

Well, anyway, as the leader of the X-men, Xavier already used to think that he knew what is better for anyone, the X-men included…

Of course, I’m talking about the Old Xavier not the capped one…

[Alan2099]

If so, he didn’t make a good job of it during a while…

If he thinks, as a scientist, that the mutants will replace the humans, it would be pretentious for him to know in how much time this would take place… In the meanwhile, there will be a period of cohabitation between humans and mutants, two “species” on the same planet.

Well, anyway, as the leader of the X-men, Xavier already used to think that he knew what is better for anyone, the X-men included…

Of course, I’m talking about the Old Xavier not the capped one…

He should probabaly talk to some of his time traveling pals.

Cable could tell him that a few thousand years in the future, mutant still aren't the dominant species and there are still humans.

[Covetous_One]

He should probabaly talk to some of his time traveling pals.

Cable could tell him that a few thousand years in the future, mutant still aren't the dominant species and there are still humans.

“Timeless” hinted this very possibility.

[Metal Sphere]

He should probabaly talk to some of his time traveling pals.

Cable could tell him that a few thousand years in the future, mutant still aren't the dominant species and there are still humans.

Man, with all the time traveling folks around Xavier it paints a really comical picture as he bobs and weaves being in the same room as them. The only minds he won't read. Though it makes me wonder how he'd react to finding out mutants are just going to be a sub-species of human, ala Mermanus, instead of some grand successor.

[Brian B]

It occurs to me that with the Moira X retcon, Xavier never held this “dream” while he founded his school and the X-Men. It was always part of a mutant separatist plan. The “dream” was a hoax and a cover.

For what exactly, I can’t say. I guess to study and survey mutant populations and powers, for planning Krakoa’s founding.

[king of hybrids]

It occurs to me that with the Moira X retcon, Xavier never held this “dream” while he founded his school and the X-Men. It was always part of a mutant separatist plan. The “dream” was a hoax and a cover.

For what exactly, I can’t say. I guess to study and survey mutant populations and powers, for planning Krakoa’s founding.

I don’t think that’s entirely fair to Xavier (ugh)

It seems like he thought he could bring the dream (the gently into that good night version) about, but was planning for all eventualities; only for the various atrocities (and Moria’s manipulations) to wear him down and stoke his bitterness

[Saithor]

Simple answer. Would old Xavier have collaborated with Nazis. The lack of Gorgon indicates yes. Thus, the dream is dead because Nazis. You literally can blame them for anything!

More seriously, having Moira whispering in his ears probably did a lot more than anything else.

[Alan2099]

Simple answer. Would old Xavier have collaborated with Nazis. The lack of Gorgon indicates yes. Thus, the dream is dead because Nazis. You literally can blame them for anything!

More seriously, having Moira whispering in his ears probably did a lot more than anything else.

That make me think of something I hadn't thought of before.

Magneto hangs out with Nazis these days and seems perfectly fine with it.

[king of hybrids]

That make me think of something I hadn't thought of before.

Magneto hangs out with Nazis these days and seems perfectly fine with it.

Specifically, He sits across the council chamber from a Nazi he knows was experimenting on children in Auschwitz at the same time he was there

[Saithor]

Actually no, Magneto knows there was a Nazi doctor at Auschwitz called Nosferatu, but he doesn’t know that was Sinister. The only one besides Sinister who would know is I think Greycrow. Now with Gorgon there’s no real excuse.