Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

[sorboares]

So strange that Babs could not have glasses,a hide out or even be a librarian.
Just find this so odd.

[Restingvoice]

Simone said the initial New 52 editorial was draconian.
Tynion said Batman Eternal was the first time they can do things previously not allowed.

Barbara's glasses I think first appeared at the beginning of Burnside, while she's moving to a new apartment and we're introduced to Frankie Charles. That's after Eternal's first act.

Reference to Barbara being a librarian only appeared nearing the tail end of DC You Burnside, with her mentioning Library Science while in Burnside College. I don't remember if she's taking it or regretting that she didn't take it. She was in the middle of investigating in a library when she said it.

[Digifiend]

But that wasn't the original look for Hellcat:

Patsy's back in something similar now, has been since at least her Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat all-ages book a few years ago. She currently appears in Iron Man.

So strange that Babs could not have glasses,a hide out or even be a librarian.
Just find this so odd.

Yeah. If they didn't want a librarian, glasses wearing Batgirl, why didn't they just keep Steph (a college student at the time) in the role? Batman didn't do a full reboot, so Batgirl shouldn't have either. They could've still had Babs get the implant and work as Batgirl with the Birds of Prey (she'd recently faked Oracle's death when the reboot happened). It really sounds like editorial didn't really want Barbara Gordon at all, and only used Babs because of the reboot.

[John Venus]

I'm sure even the Riddler would be stumped trying to figure out DC's editorial edicts.

[ohfellow]

Babs in the Murphyverse GTO Screen Shot 2021-07-05 at 10.41.09 AM.jpg




Seeing the recent Murphy costume again - hated the way the belt sat. Hated the tiny cape, and the bat symbols that was a strap for the parachute that got deployed once. Hated all the fuss on boots and gloves. Hated the yellow stripe on the side that was sometimes visible. Can't think of anything I liked about that design.

On the other hand, Murphy designed this jacket-based design for Barbara in the GTO in the Murphverse that I liked - has the non-cowl, but the rest looks like a professional Burnside uniform.

I want the boot laces back. The color doesn't matter. Laces are hard to draw, but that doesn't stop designs like Punchline's elaborate clothes, and no one complains about drawing Spider-Man or Black Canary.

[Frontier]

Babs in the Murphyverse GTO Screen Shot 2021-07-05 at 10.41.09 AM.jpg




Seeing the recent Murphy costume again - hated the way the belt sat. Hated the tiny cape, and the bat symbols that was a strap for the parachute that got deployed once. Hated all the fuss on boots and gloves. Hated the yellow stripe on the side that was sometimes visible. Can't think of anything I liked about that design.

On the other hand, Murphy designed this jacket-based design for Barbara in the GTO in the Murphverse that I liked - has the non-cowl, but the rest looks like a professional Burnside uniform.

I want the boot laces back. The color doesn't matter. Laces are hard to draw, but that doesn't stop designs like Punchline's elaborate clothes, and no one complains about drawing Spider-Man or Black Canary.

I think Babs can work with a smaller cape but that just might be me growing up with the DCAU talking. I thought the gloves and boots were pretty streamlined. I don't see why she should have laces.

I guess the belt was a little overt.

[ohfellow]

Does the new costume even have a belt? It looks like utility pouches are attached to the side edges of the bottom black seam of the jacket. Kind of like big external pockets. But the jacket will have to move around to allow for free movement, which means the pouches will be moving around with it, and would also be weighing it down. I don't know - once designs are published, they are finalized, so while I think there should be a belt, there probably won't be one. Therefore, I demand an explanation!

[Restingvoice]

Patsy's back in something similar now, has been since at least her Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat all-ages book a few years ago. She currently appears in Iron Man.

Yeah. If they didn't want a librarian, glasses wearing Batgirl, why didn't they just keep Steph (a college student at the time) in the role? Batman didn't do a full reboot, so Batgirl shouldn't have either. They could've still had Babs get the implant and work as Batgirl with the Birds of Prey (she'd recently faked Oracle's death when the reboot happened). It really sounds like editorial didn't really want Barbara Gordon at all, and only used Babs because of the reboot.

Simone was told the initial idea was New 52 is supposed to be a Year One (presumably across the board), so they do want Barbara. The legacy characters aren't even put into consideration, but plans changed almost immediately, or rather, there was no plan, and each editors had a different idea on what New 52 was supposed to be.

As for why they don't understand Barbara's character that they erase the librarian and glasses, we're talking about Didio's regime here. This is the same editorial edict that produce ban on marriage, Bat family can't be happy, Tim Drake is not his real name and he's never Robin, whatever their idea for Birds of Prey was something Simone considered too stupid she didn't want to write it, and she implied that they wanted a scene where Barbara got up from her wheelchair magically.

Massive lack of understanding for characters and audience is the name of the game.

[Digifiend]

Year One across the board doesn't make sense. In that scenario, Nightwing wouldn't have been relaunched, nor would Red Hood and the Outlaws have been published, and Dick should've been the Robin in Teen Titans. Jason and Tim would've logically been eliminated, as Cass and Steph were.

[MajorHoy]

Year One across the board doesn't make sense. In that scenario, Nightwing wouldn't have been relaunched, nor would Red Hood and the Outlaws have been published, and Dick should've been the Robin in Teen Titans. Jason and Tim would've logically been eliminated, as Cass and Steph were.

But it may have been the concept of "Year One" for each character as opposed to just an overall Year One for the entire DC universe.

From what you suggest, a Teen Titans book shouldn't have even been relaunched in "Year One" since the first team wouldn't have been formed until after Dick had already been active as Robin.

[Restingvoice]

Year One across the board doesn't make sense. In that scenario, Nightwing wouldn't have been relaunched, nor would Red Hood and the Outlaws have been published, and Dick should've been the Robin in Teen Titans. Jason and Tim would've logically been eliminated, as Cass and Steph were.

Yes, which is why Simone said that editors seem to have different idea, and they don't communicate, not between department, not between editor and writer. There's only edict.

Also it's Year One in the sense that all these characters are still young and new, not literal Year One, and you can see it in most of New 52 writing regardless their position in the old timeline.

The Justice League except for Superman and Batman didn't know each other's life outside of superhero work after 5 years working together.
Starfire didn't know earth culture or anyone beyond Dick, Roy, and Jason.
The Justice League except for Batman are in their 20s, their oldest former sidekicks are 2-3 years younger, and their relationship is more like siblings.
No one's dating their future spouses, they all have different dates, like they're not supposed to get to the endgame relationship yet, and if they're already married like Animal Man, they're divorcing and then drawn younger in the next series he appears.
Old villains just recently debut, like Gorilla Grodd and Professor Zoom.
Superboy was just created, Supergirl just arrived.
Tim's Titans were made to be the first one regardless that there's already a Dick-Kori-Roy group.
Ted Kord's a non superhero intern, while Jaime became Blue Beetle first.
Earth-2 people are young, not WW2 veterans.

So on and so forth.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Earth-2 people are young, not WW2 veterans.

That mess was just a relaunch of the concept of the JSA in modern times.

Originally DC made it sound like they were bringing back the Justice Society, but at some point it became a bait-and-switch where they basically just reused the classic characters in name only.
Hell, even Jay Garrick's origin was completely changed, this time involving the god Mercury (or was it Hermes? I can't remember) as the source of Jay's speed. And Al Pratt didn't have size-changing abilities in the past as part of his regular powers.

[Rac7d*]

I’m liking the movie news

They really want to start
Blue beetle Zatanna and batgirl before the year is up

[Restingvoice]

That mess was just a relaunch of the concept of the JSA in modern times.

Originally DC made it sound like they were bringing back the Justice Society, but at some point it became a bait-and-switch where they basically just reused the classic characters in name only.
Hell, even Jay Garrick's origin was completely changed, this time involving the god Mercury (or was it Hermes? I can't remember) as the source of Jay's speed. And Al Pratt didn't have size-changing abilities in the past as part of his regular powers.

It's Mercury. The Earth 2 version are Romans including the patrons of the Amazons

[Lucas 35]

I’m liking the movie news

I'm not! The rumours is that it takes place in the main DCEU universe, as established after Flashpoint. Snyder's Superman, Batman and their related characters are erased from continuity, and replaced by Keaton Batman and Supergirl, who is also rumoured to be the daughter of Christopher Reeve Superman. Dc is already making a mess with the continuity of the movies like the comics, he will confuse everyone like the comis, doing a half reboot, with half of the characters from other continuity