All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

Well if I was making a straw man I would have also pointed out that the refugees are largely fleeing countries that have been destabilized by American military and economic intervention, and that maybe it's not so bad to let them come in and work miserable jobs that no American would ever do, just so that they can send home what would amount to a tiny fraction of the wealth that we plundered from their countries. Not to mention that Americans profit immensely from this deal, since the contributions that immigrants make to the economy far outstrip the slave wages that most of them are being paid, and there's little point in spending billions on draconian border security measures that don't even work anyway. The only viable alternative, that we stop our imperialist meddling in Latin America and instead treat them as equal partners free to develop how they choose, would be FAR more costly because losing our preferential access to water, oil, minerals, etc. and possibly even having to compensate for the environmental damage our companies do abroad, would be a burden that our economy simply could not bear.



I wasn't aware that the mistreatment of native Americans stopped in the 1890s. Perhaps I am mistaken in believing that it kind of just continued to the present day and is just as bad as it ever was.

The specific phrase you used was "murdered all the people there." This would suggest the period you're referring to could include the so-called Indian wars which largely ended in the 1890s.

I mean, they didn't call Obama the deporter in chief for nothing, right? Did the GOP force him to do that too?

It was probably politically useful for him to be criticized from the left.

You know exactly what your assumption is because you've already argued it repeatedly -- namely that Democrats want open borders.

It's a useless discussion when someone points out any facts counter to your narrative and you just handwave them away with your own opinion.

For example: "Democrats want open borders not based on their factual record but because I read some articles about it, and Republicans aren't really bigoted -- just acceptably bigoted enough to routinely suppress minority votes and LGBT rights and to abuse the human rights of "illegals" due to concerns of an "invasion" that has inspired some on the right to actively attack and kill said people of color here in America."

It's easy to imagine people in Germany making the same exact arguments while Hitler gathered power in his country.

The more you keep trying to push the false "open borders" narrative the more it reveals how little you care that your party is racist, homophobic, sexist, corrupt, and incompetent at it's core -- if you cared about true objectivity then you would discuss said issues objectively, but instead you keep trying to frame the discussion on your own terms with "loaded" questioning because you know you have no defense for Republican behavior.

One could easily ask you why you don't concern yourself with placing "limiting principles" on the factual Republican bigotry and corruption that exists in reality more so than the hypothetical open borders that only exist in your imagination.

But the answer is obvious and asking you would lead to a dozen more pages or so of deflection -- it wouldn't do anything whatsoever to address the problem so asking you anything on said matters when you often refuse to answer honestly and directly is generally a waste of time and effort.

Your arguments remind me of how some will distract you with idle conversation while their partners rob you blind.

That said, I expect you to keep doing so even as your party suppresses the rights of minorities and continues to drive America into the gutter.

My view is a little more nuanced than just "all Democrats want open borders." I do think the party decisionmakers are well to the left on me on the issue, and polls show that I'm to the left of the typical Democrat (if wanting immigration is a left/right spectrum issue.)

However, on calling something a loaded question, the thing that matters is how the question is phrased, not what the person saying it believes.

You could answer my question about the Democratic position on immigration without having a similar understanding as I do. I think I've phrased in that way.

When I said that I'll answer non-loaded questions about Republicans, that just means that I'm asking for the question to be phrased in a non-loaded way, rather than insisting the person asking the question not have an opinion on the matter.

A predictably shitty move by SCOTUS which has become blatantly partisan. I'm no political animal, but I can't imagine the Supremes doing that for Dubya, Bush Senior or even Saint Ronnie Reagan. Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell is it about Trump that's made politicians and judges on the right collectively lose their fucking minds?

There is a long tradition of keeping grand jury material sealed.

There is also speculation that the court will take up this case before they go on summer break.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/05/j...ury-materials/

[aja_christopher]

You could answer my question about the Democratic position on immigration without having a similar understanding as I do.

Which I already did about half a year ago when we had this exact same discussion before.

I likewise responded exactly how one should to a loaded question (with facts) and you responded almost exactly as stated in the article I provided.

Again -- you repeat the usual talking points while your party suppresses the rights of minorities and continues to drive America into the gutter.

Even now you're trying to dictate the terms of the discussion -- just let it go and acknowledge that it's a waste of time for you to try to do so.

Just like it's a waste of time for me to expect you to objectively concern yourself with the racism, bigotry, and corruption within your party.

And I never claimed you think "all Democrats" want open borders because we both know that's an obvious lie: we should just end this discussion since you continually misrepresent the positions of others (whether unintentionally or otherwise) which makes me not even want to bother responding to you.

To further clarify: of course it's a "nuanced" conversation but one wouldn't know that when you keep restorting to talking points instead of objectively taking into account of the facts provided to you and then objectively responding to what others are actually saying instead of misrepresenting other positions in an obvious effort to avoid any discussion of faults within the Republican party itself.

I have no problem engaging in honest and productive discussions regarding these matters but this is not one of them.

It's noteworthy in that regard that you keep "questioning" the issue of hypothetical open borders rather than why a racist now runs your party.

But since there is a long tradition of racists and bigots running your party that's nothing new -- which explains why the bigotry isn't an issue.

[PaulBullion]

Trump, when asked by a journalist why the per capita testing in the US is worse than in most other industrialized large countries:

TRUMP: “When you say per capita, there’s many per capitas. It’s like per capita relative to what? But you can look at just about any category and we’re really at the top”

[Kirby101]

Trump, when asked by a journalist why the per capita testing in the US is worse than in most other industrialized large countries:

I've said it before, he is like the bad student giving a book report when he hasn't read the book.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Trump, when asked by a journalist why the per capita testing in the US is worse than in most other industrialized large countries:

Jesus! How can anyone THAT stupid live for as long as he has? People around the world watch clown shows like that and invariably think America as a country took collective leave of it's senses for electing Donnie Dumbass president.

[aja_christopher]

Jesus! How can anyone THAT stupid live for as long as he has? People around the world watch clown shows like that and invariably think America as a country took collective leave of it's senses for electing Donnie Dumbass president.

No matter what Mets might argue to the contrary, this is actual Republican leadership -- live and direct.

And the sad truth is that it's debateable as to whether he's been worse than the last Republican leader.

Thus far.

[Tami]

The Trump campaign is launching a conservative competitor to ‘The View’ called ‘The Right View’ Co-hosts: @kimguilfoyle @LaraLeaTrump @mercedesschlapp and @KatrinaPierson

Twitter Link with Video

Ah....yeah.......

[PaulBullion]

Twitter Link with Video

Ah....yeah.......

They do realize that The View has always included a right wing panel member?

[The Cool Thatguy]

No matter what Mets might argue to the contrary, this is actual Republican leadership -- live and direct.

And the sad truth is that it's debateable as to whether he's been worse than the last Republican leader.

Thus far.

Ugh, damn you for making me defend Bush Jr.

The man never should have been president and he was clearly too influenced by the people in his staff, but Bush knew how to run the government, knew how to govern in tough times and had basic empathy.

[Tami]

As the Nation Begins Virus Tracing, It Could Learn From This N.J. City

PATERSON, N.J. — The Uber driver had lost his sense of smell and taste but otherwise felt fine. He kept driving passengers in this small, industrial city until last week, when he took a test for Covid-19.

By Friday, Jean Mugulusi of the Paterson Health Department was on the phone with him, breaking the news that he had tested positive and asking for a list of his recent passengers. He gave her eight phone numbers.

“You came into contact with somebody who tested positive for Covid-19, so I need you to self-isolate,” Ms. Mugulusi told one of those passengers, a young man who worked in a factory.

“Can you tell me who?” the man responded. Because of privacy laws, she could not, she told him, but he needed to self-isolate.

Ms. Mugulusi was doing contact tracing, a once obscure public health measure that has suddenly taken center stage in the fight against the coronavirus and the push to reopen regions for business.

States and cities around the country have begun with varying degrees of success to ramp up efforts to put contact tracing in place on a large scale. Last week, Gov. Philip D. Murphy of New Jersey said that his state would hire up to several thousand contact tracers to assist the 800 now working for local and county health departments.

[PaulBullion]

The Sanders camp has told some delegates to sign agreements barring attacks on other candidates or party leaders, combative confrontations on social media or talking to reporters without approval.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Twitter Link with Video

Ah....yeah.......

Oh, really? Let's see, you've got Don Jr.'s girlfriend, a lesser Trump and Pierson, a.k.a. "Bullet Necklace Beyotch". That should make for stimulating conversation as those harpies shriek about all things evil and liberal.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Duplicate post

[PwrdOn]

This is a very telling response. Don't conflate what Trump's doing with Democrats, it reveals your true motives. This isn't about immigration or marginalised groups or even borders it's about hurting the Democrats.

The same Democratic party that is constantly trying to appease the GOP on immigration is also counting on riding the backs of the Latino vote into power. Somehow I don't think this is going to work out the way they thought.

[Tendrin]

Less than 24 hours after declaring, “I stand with Q and the team,” the GOP nominee to challenge Oregon Senator Jeff Merkley denied supporting the batshit conspiracy. Jo Rae Perkins posted a now-deleted video to her Twitter account soon after winning the nomination, spouting the grammatically-challenged QAnon slogan “Where we go one, we go all” and thanking her fellow “anons” for their support. When her disturbing lunacy made national headlines, Perkins quickly threw Q and the Gang under the bus.
“I'm disheartened that… my words were already being spun through the fake news machine and taken out of context. I was not endorsing QAnon, but rather stating that I appreciate the fact that there is still free speech in this country that allows for voices—including whistleblowers from both sides of the aisle—that may, or may not, bring to light issues Americans need to be aware of.”

That didn't take long.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...paign=trending