Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2022

[millernumber1]

Power levels depend entirely on the writer. In this week's Batgirls, Cass had to dig really, really deep just to beat one guy with a knife! Apparently it turns out that if Cass can't read emotions, she has almost no fighting capacity (according to Cloonan, Conrad and Chen).

Steph beat Nocturna recently. But then couldn't really beat Riddler. Steph is pretty capable everywhere except in her own book, because this is the way the three C's contrast their 3 Batgirls.

Cass fighting Mr. Fun has historical precedent of being difficult, as of Batman Family, so that's pretty much perfectly historical. As for Cass not being able to read a villain and that causing difficulty, that also has historical precedent, according to DC First: Batgirl/Joker (https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_First:.../Joker_Vol_1_1). So I think that despite the weird continuity with Cluemaster's alive status, Cloonan and Conrad ARE paying attention.

Steph totally beat the Riddler - she just had to abandon her victory to save the robodog!

[ComicNoobie]

Sigh, It would have been cool if Steph got to capture the Riddler. It would have been a awesome moment for her to bag an A-list Gotham criminal all by herself...but alas no. At least there was a cool moment of her holding a blade with blood on her hands. Still the conversation between the two was interesting, I don't remember if Cluemaster is currently alive or not but if he's coming back I wonder what it means for Steph?

[millernumber1]

Sigh, It would have been cool if Steph got to capture the Riddler. It would have been a awesome moment for her to bag an A-list Gotham criminal all by herself...but alas no. At least there was a cool moment of her holding a blade with blood on her hands. Still the conversation between the two was interesting, I don't remember if Cluemaster is currently alive or not but if he's coming back I wonder what it means for Steph?

Cluemaster last showed up in Young Justice #18, and he revealed there he faked his death in Batman Eternal. So it feels kinda weird to have a different status quo just a few years later.

Still excited to find out!

[Frontier]

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. And also, why would she be fighting Harley the hero?

But Harley got a whole series of 30th Anniversary variant covers, INCLUDING on Steph's own series. Steph got an accidental 30th anniversary 90s rewind cover on her own series, nearly 6 months after her actual anniversary!

No, I'm not still monumentally salty, why do you ask?

Well Punchline beat Harley, by right Steph can beat Harley .

[ComicNoobie]

Cluemaster last showed up in Young Justice #18, and he revealed there he faked his death in Batman Eternal. So it feels kinda weird to have a different status quo just a few years later.

Still excited to find out!

If it means a storyline for Steph I'm all for it. Not that he's a threat or anything, but it's the emotional baggage he brings.

Well Punchline beat Harley, by right Steph can beat Harley .

In that situation I think it depends on who's writing. Harley is a big DC cash cow right? I doubt they'd let just anyone without powers beat her.

[millernumber1]

Well Punchline beat Harley, by right Steph can beat Harley .

Fights aren't math! And Harley beat Punchline later!

[ohfellow]

Cass fighting Mr. Fun has historical precedent of being difficult, as of Batman Family, so that's pretty much perfectly historical.

I didn't know that.

As for Cass not being able to read a villain and that causing difficulty, that also has historical precedent, according to DC First: Batgirl/Joker (https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_First:.../Joker_Vol_1_1). So I think that despite the weird continuity with Cluemaster's alive status, Cloonan and Conrad ARE paying attention.

I gather Cass couldn't read Joker's body movements, because he moved kind of randomly. Here, she has trouble because she can't read Mr. Fun's emotions (mind).

They're different, though both of these strike me as equally writerly and implausible.

The Joker story is so much more interesting, and obviously you can't compare the art.

Steph totally beat the Riddler - she just had to abandon her victory to save the robodog!

I didn't read that way. I could see that interpretation, though.

First, does Steph push the three of them outside the open sliding glass door? If so, is that deliberate? Or does Riddler pull them out? Regardless, it doesn't work out well. (It looks to me like Steph shoves them, but it's bad no matter what.)

In the water, Steph then looks around, worried, because she's lost Riddler, and then tells Barbara so. And then, that she's ok but Fido is on the fritz. I think if she knew which way Riddler went and could catch up with him, she'd have left the robot. It's just a mechanical thing that could be repaired.

If she pushed them out deliberately, then it's one more Cloonradism sequence where the dialog doesn't make sense. She is saying "If I were my father, you'd be dead" as she throws them out of a window and into a fall that would actually kill most people! In fact, she has to reassure Barbara that she's okay, so it's not like it was clearly a risk-free dive.

I guess I will continue to fight with this book! It was better, in that the annoying narration was turned down - it's still there, but was less prominent.

[millernumber1]

I didn't know that.

I gather Cass couldn't read Joker's body movements, because he moved kind of randomly. Here, she has trouble because she can't read Mr. Fun's emotions (mind).

They're different, though both of these strike me as equally writerly and implausible.

The Joker story is so much more interesting, and obviously you can't compare the art.

I didn't read that way. I could see that interpretation, though.

First, does Steph push the three of them outside the open sliding glass door? If so, is that deliberate? Or does Riddler pull them out? Regardless, it doesn't work out well. (It looks to me like Steph shoves them, but it's bad no matter what.)

In the water, Steph then looks around, worried, because she's lost Riddler, and then tells Barbara so. And then, that she's ok but Fido is on the fritz. I think if she knew which way Riddler went and could catch up with him, she'd have left the robot. It's just a mechanical thing that could be repaired.

If she pushed them out deliberately, then it's one more Cloonradism sequence where the dialog doesn't make sense. She is saying "If I were my father, you'd be dead" as she throws them out of a window and into a fall that would actually kill most people! In fact, she has to reassure Barbara that she's okay, so it's not like it was clearly a risk-free dive.

I guess I will continue to fight with this book! It was better, in that the annoying narration was turned down - it's still there, but was less prominent.

I just got the Batgirls reviewing gig on the site I write for, so I decided to finally give the miniseries a read, and was very interested in what I found (it's still not very good, mostly justly forgotten). But Mr. Fun is canonically a serious threat to Cass based on his origin there. Cass's "body reading" is extremely...um...you have to accept it, and accept that writers are going to use it arbitrarily, so I think it's fine what Cloonan and Conrad did. Plus, I hate the Joker, so I'm just not interested in those kinds of stories in themselves.

I definitely did read the falling out the window scene as Steph tackling Riddler as a deliberate move. I think it only went badly because Steph had to save Fido. And as we know from the first arc, the Batgirls have (perhaps irrational, but the book seems to support them in this irrationality) a deep attachment to the gizmos in their lives, from Bondo to Fido.

I think this arc has been the best of the three so far. I liked the first one, but had too many questions in the end of why Babs did stuff like giving Tutor to Spellbinder. Second arc, I believe, was just bad. BAD. But this third arc has been really fun! A lot more connections to history, a lot more exploration of stuff in Steph and Cass's emotions and skills. And I like the humor of things like falling in the fish.

[ComicNoobie]

I just got the Batgirls reviewing gig on the site I write for, so I decided to finally give the miniseries a read, and was very interested in what I found (it's still not very good, mostly justly forgotten). But Mr. Fun is canonically a serious threat to Cass based on his origin there. Cass's "body reading" is extremely...um...you have to accept it, and accept that writers are going to use it arbitrarily, so I think it's fine what Cloonan and Conrad did. Plus, I hate the Joker, so I'm just not interested in those kinds of stories in themselves.

I definitely did read the falling out the window scene as Steph tackling Riddler as a deliberate move. I think it only went badly because Steph had to save Fido. And as we know from the first arc, the Batgirls have (perhaps irrational, but the book seems to support them in this irrationality) a deep attachment to the gizmos in their lives, from Bondo to Fido.

I think this arc has been the best of the three so far. I liked the first one, but had too many questions in the end of why Babs did stuff like giving Tutor to Spellbinder. Second arc, I believe, was just bad. BAD. But this third arc has been really fun! A lot more connections to history, a lot more exploration of stuff in Steph and Cass's emotions and skills. And I like the humor of things like falling in the fish.

Falling in the fish and Steph's rooftop kiddie pool. This arc was blessed with so many good Steph/Batgirls moments. And poor Bondo. I hope Cass has recovered from losing a important member of the Batgirl Family.

[millernumber1]

Falling in the fish and Steph's rooftop kiddie pool. This arc was blessed with so many good Steph/Batgirls moments. And poor Bondo. I hope Cass has recovered from losing a important member of the Batgirl Family.

Great moments indeed!

[Digifiend]

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. And also, why would she be fighting Harley the hero?

But Harley got a whole series of 30th Anniversary variant covers, INCLUDING on Steph's own series. Steph got an accidental 30th anniversary 90s rewind cover on her own series, nearly 6 months after her actual anniversary!

No, I'm not still monumentally salty, why do you ask?

That cover's an odd one. Steph's the focus of the cover, but it uses the logo from Cassandra's run. Shouldn't that cover have focused on the Batgirl who was actually given that name in the 90s (in 1999) and not Spoiler who only became a Batgirl 13 years ago?

Cluemaster last showed up in Young Justice #18, and he revealed there he faked his death in Batman Eternal. So it feels kinda weird to have a different status quo just a few years later.

Still excited to find out!

And Steph was on Bendis's YJ team, so she knows about that! Clearly the Batgirls writer didn't read it. Ugh, we've had enough of this with Meghan Fitzmartin's Young Justice, now another book ignores Bendis's run?

[millernumber1]

That cover's an odd one. Steph's the focus of the cover, but it uses the logo from Cassandra's run. Shouldn't that cover have focused on the Batgirl who was actually given that name in the 90s (in 1999) and not Spoiler who only became a Batgirl 13 years ago?

And Steph was on Bendis's YJ team, so she knows about that! Clearly the Batgirls writer didn't read it. Ugh, we've had enough of this with Meghan Fitzmartin's Young Justice, now another book ignores Bendis's run?

Cass was in the cover. And the artist chosen was a student of Tom Lyle, the co-creator of Steph. Why editorial did what they did is a mystery, but I'm happy we got SOMETHING.

I would be very, very curious to know what the Batgirls team is thinking with regards to Bendis YJ.

[adrikito]

Happy to see Steph&Cass included here..

Batman-vs-Robin-5 batfamily portrait Dick Steph Cass Jason tim.jpg

[millernumber1]

Looks like Steph will be a focus in the next issue of Batgirls, as well as getting her own Robin #128 homage on Tim Drake: Robin #6's variant by Dan Mora!

[ohfellow]

Happy to see Steph&Cass included here..

Batman-vs-Robin-5 batfamily portrait Dick Steph Cass Jason tim.jpg

It's actually the Sandoval variant at regular cover price (he signed it near the bottom), so I'll be able to afford it!