Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Dboi2001]

I think because Moore himself said Rorschach isn't a good person and exemplifies everything wrong with vigilantes and objectivism.

And Moore also said Killing Joke is a bad book and the ending has no meaning. The point is I think Snyder made Rorschach work. He showed him as being mentally insane with heavy baggage in his life. Maybe Snyder cut down on the homophobia but this movie was made in 2009 and it is a major movie meaning it has to be a bit more PC than a limited series comic book from the 80s

[Jokerz79]

How did Snyder now understand the source material please enlighten me? At this point I doubt Alan Moore “understood” watchmen. As for Rorschach I get he’s an asshole but no one in this are particularly good people. Why does it seem like everyone thinks Rorschach is an irredeemable monster and Adrien is a saint?

Rorschach was never meant to be a "good guy" Moore himself has said it many times. Adrien while killing millions was doing to save billions from the real threat of Cold War World War 3/Nuclear War while Rorschach didn't care if the world burned as along as the "Truth" came out. Both men are flawed in their logics but Adrien's flaws were for what he saw as a greater good while Rorschach was about his own "moral code" and enforcing it on the world.

As for Snyder's Watchmen my issue with it is while he got Dr. Manhattan pitch perfect unlike the HBO series which I did enjoy a lot until the Manhattan reveal no one will ever convince me that the Dr. Manhattan from Alan Moore's Watchmen who spent decades detaching from his humanity just wiped his mind and became a soccer dad. Where as Snyder failed IMO with his visuals to portray the other characters as normal humans when in combat. Their strength and agility seemed superhuman missing the point of telling the story of normal people playing hero and what kind of person does that where something like Netflix's Daredevil did it fantastically Matt looked punch drunk in many fight scenes and then had to heal up and fight his own demons.

Enough of Watchmen as for Justice League just watched. I liked the more in depth backstories and plots but I'm just not a Snyder Fan I find his films a drag to sit through and I once sat thru a 7 hour cut of Godfather and Godfather II and wanted more but Snyder I just keep looking at my watch. Also the Knightmare stuff seemed unnecessary and tacked on IMO. Oh while Darkseid looked good I found the rest of the New Gods designs bland and very generic.

[HsssH]

Rorschach was never meant to be a "good guy" Moore himself has said it many times. Adrien while killing millions was doing to save billions from the real threat of Cold War World War 3/Nuclear War while Rorschach didn't care if the world burned as along as the "Truth" came out. Both men are flawed in their logics but Adrien's flaws were for what he saw as a greater good while Rorschach was about his own "moral code" and enforcing it on the world.

I'm sure that Rorschach saw his moral code as greater good as well.

[Jokerz79]

I'm sure that Rorschach saw his moral code as greater good as well.

Sure but Adrien's view of a "Greater Good" was in service of trying to save lives in the bigger picture and Rorschach's "Greater Good" cared nothing of the lives it would cost lives. Both men are wrong but at least Adrien was trying to save lives at the end of the day making him IMO the better man.

[Dboi2001]

Rorschach was never meant to be a "good guy" Moore himself has said it many times. Adrien while killing millions was doing to save billions from the real threat of Cold War World War 3/Nuclear War while Rorschach didn't care if the world burned as along as the "Truth" came out. Both men are flawed in their logics but Adrien's flaws were for what he saw as a greater good while Rorschach was about his own "moral code" and enforcing it on the world.

Yeah an I’m the Snyder watchmen I never saw him as particularly the ‘good guy’ either but he is certainly the lesser of two evils. I don’t what anyone says murdering millions to prevent a theoretical disaster is never justified.

Where as Snyder failed IMO with his visuals to portray the other characters as normal humans when in combat. Their strength and agility seemed superhuman missing the point of telling the story of normal people playing hero and what kind of person does that where something like Netflix's Daredevil did it fantastically Matt looked punch drunk in many fight scenes and then had to heal up and fight his own demons.

And that wasn’t what Snyder was going for. Just because Gibson and Moore didn’t focus on the action doesn’t make it realistic. Throughout the story we see the heroes have no issue fighting multiple opponents at once. Hate to break it to you but if Dan and Laurie were realistic they’d be beaten and mugged by the gang. Watchmen was never realistic in that aspect and I don’t have an issue with the more stylized action scenes. In a way it makes it more comic booky which you may say is a bad thing but I don’t. It’s essentially a gory twist on classic comic book action, he even added in goofy sound effects. I know some people think Snyder has no self awareness but you don’t add in corny punch sound effects without having some self awareness. Like if you compare 300 to watchmen’s actions despite the slow mo there isn’t a ton of similarities

Enough of Watchmen as for Justice League just watched. I liked the more in depth backstories and plots but I'm just not a Snyder Fan I find his films a drag to sit through and I once sat thru a 7 hour cut of Godfather and Godfather II and wanted more but Snyder I just keep looking at my watch. Also the Knightmare stuff seemed unnecessary and tacked on IMO. Oh while Darkseid looked good I found the rest of the New Gods designs bland and very generic.

Well I personally disagree and we just have different takes. I’d gladly watch JLII and JLIII if they were another 4 hours each

[Dboi2001]

Sure but Adrien's view of a "Greater Good" was in service of trying to save lives in the bigger picture and Rorschach's "Greater Good" cared nothing of the lives it would cost lives. Both men are wrong but at least Adrien was trying to save lives at the end of the day making him IMO the better man.

Adrien isn’t “saving live”. That would imply someone is in immediate danger. Last time I checked Dr Manhattan had the power of premonition not Adrien. He isn’t certain that the soviets would actually launch a nuclear war with America. You can’t kill someone based on speculation otherwise George Bush would be seen as a hero

[Will Evans]

So I finished watching the movie, Joss Whedon screwed Ray Fisher so hard. You get why Ray Fisher is so mad today after seeing this movie. Cyborg is the emotional core of the movie and the reason the first movie sucks so hard is that they took out all the scenes with Cyborg. Cyborg was basically the connective tissue and the reason the movie so disjointed because the movie doesn't make sense without his parts. I am kinda mad now because we don't have a Cyborg movie now and Fisher did a good enough job that he should have been given a shot. I will let people come to their decision whether the movie is good or not. But I will say I am glad for Synder because this is some level of vindication this movie being a mess wasn't on him.

But would it have worked in a 2 hour 30 minute film than a 4 hour one?

[skyvolt2000]

So I finished watching the movie, Joss Whedon screwed Ray Fisher so hard. You get why Ray Fisher is so mad today after seeing this movie. Cyborg is the emotional core of the movie and the reason the first movie sucks so hard is that they took out all the scenes with Cyborg. Cyborg was basically the connective tissue and the reason the movie so disjointed because the movie doesn't make sense without his parts. I am kinda mad now because we don't have a Cyborg movie now and Fisher did a good enough job that he should have been given a shot. I will let people come to their decision whether the movie is good or not. But I will say I am glad for Synder because this is some level of vindication this movie being a mess wasn't on him.

Okay here is the million dollar question-what gets cut to include Cyborg's core stuff and fit a 2 hour 30 minute movie.

[WebLurker]

the premise has not changed. to be precise, the attempts to push the more fluff light hearted action comedies has done harm to comic films. again I will say it for the last time, those that like mcu films that keeping calling BvS a bad film does not make it true.

BvS wasn't bad because it was ultra serious, it was bad because the story was a mess and Snyder muddled the themes he was trying to set up. That's the whole point, a well-executed movie almost always beats out a well-intentioned one that a botched job.

the reason no one likes to touch TDK trilogy or Logan is because they are not easy targets like BvS.

Or maybe more people actually like them. I mean, crazy as it is to suggest, maybe, unlike the Snyderverse installemnts, they're actually good movies?

However, some of these people that like to say this about BvS are also the same people who have told me many times to forget a film like Logan happened and just focus now on the light side of xmen because xmen is now part MCU, these same people are also trying to sow doubts with the upcoming Matt Reeves Batman films by saying we have seen it before.

Dunno about that. I can only speak for myself, and my thoughts are that Logan was a top-tier movie, I'm suspending judgement on new X-Men movies until they actually come out, and I'm curious about the new Batman movie.

Seriously.

I don't see it, but whatever.

No I never said it overshadowed. please don't mistake movies that get insane hype for overshadowing.

It will. it just has more advantages to do so.

Notice how with the cut, people are focusing on Snyder the film maker? when you have that advantage, you are better off than mass manufactured movies.

Okay, you got me curious; why do you think the director's cut of a failed movie is going to remembered longer then a well-established, and consistently well-liked film that (so far) seems to have proven to have staying power?

[CosmiComic]

BvS wasn't bad because it was ultra serious, it was bad because the story was a mess and Snyder muddled the themes he was trying to set up. That's the whole point, a well-executed movie almost always beats out a well-intentioned one that a botched job.

Exactly

Okay, you got me curious; why do you think the director's cut of a failed movie is going to remembered longer then a well-established, and consistently well-liked film that (so far) seems to have proven to have staying power?

Apparently because he says so. Somehow the MCU is the worst comic book movie series despite doing better.

[skyvolt2000]

Okay, you got me curious; why do you think the director's cut of a failed movie is going to remembered longer then a well-established, and consistently well-liked film that (so far) seems to have proven to have staying power?

Excluding if the movie is good or not-it will be remembered for what was done to Ray Fisher's character. Because this is what so many POC have SCREAMED about being done to them.

Eli Goree, John Boyega, Ernie Hudson and others say hi.

A movie got RUINED or under performed because the core of the movie-Cyborg got his stuff taken out. WHO does that? That scream sabotage to me. If someone with power had an issue with that-the film should not have passed the script stage before it started filming.

[CosmiComic]

Excluding if the movie is good or not-it will be remembered for what was done to Ray Fisher's character. Because this is what so many POC have SCREAMED about being done to them.

Eli Goree, John Boyega, Ernie Hudson and others say hi.

A movie got RUINED or under performed because the core of the movie-Cyborg got his stuff taken out. WHO does that? That scream sabotage to me. If someone with power had an issue with that-the film should not have passed the script stage before it started filming.

Which one was Ernie Hudson?

[Thezmage]

Which one was Ernie Hudson?

Winston Zeddemore from Ghostbusters. When the role was written it was intended for Eddie Murphy and was a much bigger role. He had a backstory in the armed forces and was with the team from the beginning. After Ernie Hudson was cast his role was significantly reduced to where he had no backstory and joined the team halfway through.

[CosmiComic]

Winston Zeddemore from Ghostbusters. When the role was written it was intended for Eddie Murphy and was a much bigger role. He had a backstory in the armed forces and was with the team from the beginning. After Ernie Hudson was cast his role was significantly reduced to where he had no backstory and joined the team halfway through.

Oh wow. It seems to be a pattern.

[HsssH]

Sure but Adrien's view of a "Greater Good" was in service of trying to save lives in the bigger picture and Rorschach's "Greater Good" cared nothing of the lives it would cost lives. Both men are wrong but at least Adrien was trying to save lives at the end of the day making him IMO the better man.

I'm sure that you are aware of a saying how road to hell is paved with good intentions. And you know what doesn't lead there? Truth.