Rebirth missing in Action: Where is Cyborg, John Stewart, Jakeem Thunder, BL...

[Wakeneuron]

They were planning on doing a Cyborg solo film, but Justice League's failure put a stop to that. Shame too, Fisher's Cyborg was one of the few highlights that movie had.

If the Flash finally get his solo movie made Cyborg will be the only one in the Justice League line-up without a solo movie and add on to the fact that DC/Warner Bros are not planning a solo African American Superhero film in the near future, that image does not look good. If you look at the Ebay listings for the Justice League movie dvd you will see that most review given it 5 stars so it seems the movie has been well received by the public despite it's many flaws. Also the release the snyder cut hashtage was trending yesterday of twitter with 43k up votes so I think there might be hope for a Cyborg movie since all of the cuts made in the Justice League movie featured Cyborg. I think that Warner Bros need to deal with the Snyder cut campaign so that they can move on with the DCEU. Maybe they can include some of the scenes in the Snyder cut in a Cyborg movies (the ones featuring cyborg and his family) and then the rest in Justice League part 2 and explain it by having it tied into an augmented or virtual reality created by the motherbox.

w34rv9bksw831.jpg

[iron chimp]

No matter how many times I tell you this, you do not listen. This isn't about editornial freedom.

Okay. The reason Naomi is being published is because Brian Michael Bendis has a black daughter or black daughters, so he clearly has black females playing huge roles in his life, and he seems to value their perspective. Take Brian Michael Bendis out of the equation and *poof*, in all probability Naomi is going to disappear.

Now imagine that Brian Michael Bendis writes a Wonder Woman series. Now take Brian Michael Bendis away from Wonder Woman. What happens? Wonder Woman keeps on trucking!

Here's what this means:
DC Comics likely doesn't care enough about Naomi to continue publishing that character even after Bendis leaves. (Honestly, I'm not positive on all the conditions and legalities of Naomi, but let's pretend that DC has total unbridled use of the character).

DC Comics cares enough about Wonder Woman to keep her in constant publication and constantly at or near the forefront of their publishing company.

The black character does not take priority here. As has always been the case with DC, the white characters do. There just currently happens to be a big name writer at DC who cares about writing a black female right now. This does not mean that DC is particularly interested in the black female character. They are more so interested in the writer.

I hold that black characters are not prioritized at DC. I don't even know how anybody can even debate that.

I'm listening perfectly well

Wont support black writers
Wont support black artists
Wont support creator of Miles Morales
Wont support new black characters
Wont support new books by established black characters
Wont support afro centric stories at vertigo
Wont support black characters at writer controlled imprints.

3 of the 5 books have finite lengths so the argument yeah but what happens next is entirely irrelevant. Of the other 2 if you wont buy them because you think they might turn to garbage then yes that's how serial storytelling goes. That doesnt invalidate a previous good run tho.

And I believe, urban myth or not, that DC has to keep wonder woman in print for copyright reasons. I'm sure someone will know.

[Ascended]

If the Flash finally get his solo movie made Cyborg will be the only one in the Justice League line-up without a solo movie and add on to the fact that DC/Warner Bros are not planning a solo African American Superhero film in the near future, that image does not look good. If you look at the Ebay listings for the Justice League movie dvd you will see that most review given it 5 stars so it seems the movie has been well received by the public despite it's many flaws. Also the release the snyder cut hashtage was trending yesterday of twitter with 43k up votes so I think there might be hope for a Cyborg movie since all of the cuts made in the Justice League movie featured Cyborg. I think that Warner Bros need to deal with the Snyder cut campaign so that they can move on with the DCEU. Maybe they can include some of the scenes in the Snyder cut in a Cyborg movies (the ones featuring cyborg and his family) and then the rest in Justice League part 2 and explain it by having it tied into an augmented or virtual reality created by the motherbox.

w34rv9bksw831.jpg

IF the Flash movie actually happens, it will definitely be a bad look with Vic being the only one to not get a solo. Far as Im concerned it already is a bad look. If nothing else, Flash has the tv show while Vic is just one of an ensemble cast in Doom Patrol (and has shown up a few times in YJ, I guess).

But on the other hand, there's still nothing that says the Flash movie will actually hit theaters, Superman isn't getting a movie at all (and is rumored to have his "spot" taken by Supergirl), and while they'll force Batman out no matter how badly they struggle with it (because hes Batman) I'm not sure if anyone will be happy with the end result considering how tortured the process has been so far. So its not like Vic is the only hero being screwed over by WB. And their track record is still pretty awful. Yeah, Aquaman was solid and word is Shazam was too (waiting for blu-ray) but BoP looks questionable and the previous films are still largely crap. So even if Vic did get a film like he deserves I dont trust WB to do it right.

[Aahz]

Well, it's still better than the numbers produced by the recent Hawkman and Martian Manhunter Series. Martian Manhunter only had about 42,000 copies ordered even with 3 variants for the first issue. And as I stated before Cyborg's first solo series in the DCu era had about 52,000 copies ordered with only 2 variants. And the recent DCeased mini-series had 242,000 copies ordered for issue # 1 which focused on a techo virus similar to the ones in the Singularity Aftermath storyline in the last Cyborg solo book written by John Semper jr.

But those numbers were massivly boosed by Rebirth, all the boock that were launched with Rebirth had much higher sales than they would usually have.
And to wich series are you exactly refering with the 52,000 copies the Rebirth series or the one before?
And I'm also not sure Hawkman and Martian Manhunter are really a good comparison, both have not really been able to keep a solo going in ages.

Btw. sales of #1 issues are not a good indicator, at #6 you have usually a clearer picture on how the series is selling.

[Wakeneuron]

I was referring to Cyborg's first solo series written by David Walker.

[Bruce Wayne]

I was referring to Cyborg's first solo series written by David Walker.

That book had horrible sales:


07/2015: Cyborg #1 -- 45,187
08/2015: Cyborg #2 -- 29,167 (- 35.5%)
09/2015: --
10/2015: Cyborg #3 -- 27,550 (- 5.5%)
10/2015: Cyborg #4 -- 25,926 (- 5.9%)
11/2015: --
12/2015: Cyborg #5 -- 23,618 (- 8.9%)
12/2015: Cyborg #6 -- 17,864 (- 24.4%)
01/2016: Cyborg #7 -- 18,975 (+ 6.2%)
02/2016: Cyborg #8 -- 18,092 (- 4.7%)
03/2016: Cyborg #9 -- 13,578 (- 25.0%)
04/2016: Cyborg #10 -- 15,256 (+ 12.4%)
05/2016: Cyborg #11 -- 12,425 (- 18.6%)
06/2016: Cyborg #12 -- 12,411 (- 0.1%)

The numbers on Hawkman were better (in that they were more stable at the tail end):

06/2018: Hawkman #1 -- 42,123 (- 49.5%) [43,884]
07/2018: Hawkman #2 -- 30,781 (- 28.2%) [31,501]
08/2018: Hawkman #3 -- 27,331 (- 12.1%) [27,694]
09/2018: Hawkman #4 -- 24,687 (- 10.9%)
10/2018: Hawkman #5 -- 30,171 (+ 22.7%) [30,303]
11/2018: Hawkman #6 -- 21,818 (- 28.0%)
12/2018: Hawkman #7 -- 20,625 (- 5.5%)
01/2019: Hawkman #8 -- 20,198 (- 2.1%)
02/2019: Hawkman #9 -- 18,829 (- 6.8%)
03/2019: Hawkman #10 -- 18,269 (- 3.0%)
04/2019: Hawkman #11 -- 18,392 (+ 0.7%)
05/2019: Hawkman #12 -- 18,135 (- 1.4%)

[Vampire Savior]

I'm listening perfectly well

Wont support black writers

I will if I enjoy their work, just as I would any other writer.

Wont support black artists

Do you think I'm some sort of pro-black? Is that the standard you're holding me to, because I am most certainly not that, and I have no shame in saying that. I do not choose to support writers or artists based on their race. I do so based on the merit of their work. If I'm not impressed with their work, I will not support them. For example, I cannot stand Ta-Nahiesi Coates or Kwanza (seriously, who calls themselves something like that?) It doesn't matter what color their skin is to me. That said, it is worth noting that the color of their skin strongly informs nearly every single thing those two seem to do, creatively or otherwise, and that is at least some of the reason why I don't prefer their work.

Wont support creator of Miles Morales

So? I didn't sign a contract saying that I had to do this.

Wont support new black characters

I will if I like them. I will not like them solely on the grounds of them being black.

Wont support new books by established black characters

I will if I like the character and I like the direction of the story.

Wont support afro centric stories at vertigo

You must think I'm a pro-black.

Wont support black characters at writer controlled imprints.

I will if I enjoy the story.

3 of the 5 books have finite lengths so the argument yeah but what happens next is entirely irrelevant. Of the other 2 if you wont buy them because you think they might turn to garbage then yes that's how serial storytelling goes. That doesnt invalidate a previous good run tho.

And I believe, urban myth or not, that DC has to keep wonder woman in print for copyright reasons. I'm sure someone will know.

None of this says that DC prioritizes their black characters. Sure, they're around...behind the white characters and the projects starring white characters. Those are the books and characters that take priority with DC. And based on my personal experiences, I don't look to DC to satisfy me with black characters. Their biggest black characters are John Stewart and Cyborg, and both of them are pretty lame and used pretty lamely. Another book might come around here or there, but they typically don't have the impact and aren't published with enough frequency to change my viewpoint on the issue.

[Wakeneuron]

That book had horrible sales:


07/2015: Cyborg #1 -- 45,187
08/2015: Cyborg #2 -- 29,167 (- 35.5%)
09/2015: --
10/2015: Cyborg #3 -- 27,550 (- 5.5%)
10/2015: Cyborg #4 -- 25,926 (- 5.9%)
11/2015: --
12/2015: Cyborg #5 -- 23,618 (- 8.9%)
12/2015: Cyborg #6 -- 17,864 (- 24.4%)
01/2016: Cyborg #7 -- 18,975 (+ 6.2%)
02/2016: Cyborg #8 -- 18,092 (- 4.7%)
03/2016: Cyborg #9 -- 13,578 (- 25.0%)
04/2016: Cyborg #10 -- 15,256 (+ 12.4%)
05/2016: Cyborg #11 -- 12,425 (- 18.6%)
06/2016: Cyborg #12 -- 12,411 (- 0.1%)

The numbers on Hawkman were better (in that they were more stable at the tail end):

06/2018: Hawkman #1 -- 42,123 (- 49.5%) [43,884]
07/2018: Hawkman #2 -- 30,781 (- 28.2%) [31,501]
08/2018: Hawkman #3 -- 27,331 (- 12.1%) [27,694]
09/2018: Hawkman #4 -- 24,687 (- 10.9%)
10/2018: Hawkman #5 -- 30,171 (+ 22.7%) [30,303]
11/2018: Hawkman #6 -- 21,818 (- 28.0%)
12/2018: Hawkman #7 -- 20,625 (- 5.5%)
01/2019: Hawkman #8 -- 20,198 (- 2.1%)
02/2019: Hawkman #9 -- 18,829 (- 6.8%)
03/2019: Hawkman #10 -- 18,269 (- 3.0%)
04/2019: Hawkman #11 -- 18,392 (+ 0.7%)
05/2019: Hawkman #12 -- 18,135 (- 1.4%)

I think the sales are good considering Cyborg is an African American Superhero who were stripped of almost all of his history. He had none of the iconic super villains from his time as a new teen titan and non from the Justice League. The writer David Walker left with issue # 9 because his vision for Cyborg clashed with DC. In comparison with Hawkman who has solo ongoings regularly since the 80s I think he did pretty good. I thought Walker did a good job.

Also with issue # 4 the Martian Manhunter only had about 17,000 copies ordered.

[iron chimp]

I will if I enjoy their work, just as I would any other writer.




Do you think I'm some sort of pro-black? Is that the standard you're holding me to, because I am most certainly not that, and I have no shame in saying that. I do not choose to support writers or artists based on their race. I do so based on the merit of their work. If I'm not impressed with their work, I will not support them. For example, I cannot stand Ta-Nahiesi Coates or Kwanza (seriously, who calls themselves something like that?) It doesn't matter what color their skin is to me. That said, it is worth noting that the color of their skin strongly informs nearly every single thing those two seem to do, creatively or otherwise, and that is at least some of the reason why I don't prefer their work.



So? I didn't sign a contract saying that I had to do this.



I will if I like them. I will not like them solely on the grounds of them being black.



I will if I like the character and I like the direction of the story.



You must think I'm a pro-black.



I will if I enjoy the story.



None of this says that DC prioritizes their black characters. Sure, they're around...behind the white characters and the projects starring white characters. Those are the books and characters that take priority with DC. And based on my personal experiences, I don't look to DC to satisfy me with black characters. Their biggest black characters are John Stewart and Cyborg, and both of them are pretty lame and used pretty lamely. Another book might come around here or there, but they typically don't have the impact and aren't published with enough frequency to change my viewpoint on the issue.

None of that was directed at you personally - but the "you" of arguments put forward by you of different readers and I respect you for presenting those arguments. My counter is that the actual outcome of those arguments put forward is no support for any black books by DC by people asking for black books and black creators at DC.

But I will leave it there.

[skyvolt2000]

None of that was directed at you personally - but the "you" of arguments put forward by you of different readers and I respect you for presenting those arguments. My counter is that the actual outcome of those arguments put forward is no support for any black books by DC by people asking for black books and black creators at DC.

But I will leave it there.

How do you KNOW??? Where is the evidence?
How many comic book stores are in the black community?
How many stores ORDER those books? Take Batman's name off of Batman & Outsiders & Batman & Signal or remove BENDIS off of Naomi-how many store would have ordered those books?

Also how many ways can you get a comic book?

I get Miles & Riri's books via a mail subscription at a huge discount from Marvel.
I dig in BINS for books. of the last 75 DC books I have bought only Batman & Signal were bought via cover price. Everyone else from Doomsday Clock, Teen Titans, Action Comics 1000 and a few others came from bins 25 cents to 1.00
Not to mention Ebay & other places that sell at discounts.

Finally the COMPANY has to be held accountable.

Too many of them have tossed out CRAPPY books and then get SHOCKED that no one wants them. How does ANYONE screw up Static?
Because some people think because too many folks accept CRAP like X-Men vs Inhumans, Heroes in Crisis, Nightwing, Hal Jordan & TGLC-that everyone will accept whatever is tossed on the wall with black folks.

Or the behavior of the company is a turn off. Look at the treatment of Wally West. He SOLD books and Dc trashed him. Cassandra Cain, John Stewart and others that Dc has crapped on.
Why should I bother with Naomi when she could end up just as bad as Wally West?

Oh and when one asks for those black lead books and creators-it's due to there needs to be material from this company with those elements. While I might not buy it-libraries & schools & PARENTS will. For all the CRAP Marvel got-it did NOT hurt TRADES where DC (if the book is not named Batman) gets its behind handed to them. It's not Wonder Woman, Harley, Supergirl or Batgirl top selling on Amazon-it's Ms Marvel, Cap Marvel, Jane Foster, Moon Girl, Squirrel Girl, Riri, Shuri, Midnight Angels and indy females.

I am not asking for the impossible. Minis, one shots or OGN are not that hard to do. Look at Raven's OGN-it was HIGHLY sought pre-ordered on Amazon under Teens where DC Rebirth is not even in the top 500.

[Dr. Ellingham]

If the Flash finally get his solo movie made Cyborg will be the only one in the Justice League line-up without a solo movie and add on to the fact that DC/Warner Bros are not planning a solo African American Superhero film in the near future, that image does not look good.

Well, the only confirmed follow-ups to Justice League's reception is the continuation of Wonder Woman and Aquaman 2. One woman-led film, and one mixed-ethnicity male-led film. Everything else is either in development hell, or being rebooted anyway. There's no "look".

DC took a shot at elevating Cyborg to star status. It kinda worked, for awhile. But one issue is that he's always been a team book character, and so the task is a lot larger than "tell good stories".

The larger reality is that the superhero market is already cornered, and has been for 50 years. The last new superhero character to make a lasting splash in this industry was Wolverine - and he debuted 45 years ago. The market is in firm steady state.

How do you create a new soda to compete for shelf space with Coca Cola, Pepsi and Dr. Pepper? It would be nearly impossible to last in the ring with them for more than a few years - which is the core issue for all non-established superhero concepts at DC and Marvel.

[Aahz]

I think the sales are good considering Cyborg is an African American Superhero who were stripped of almost all of his history. He had none of the iconic super villains from his time as a new teen titan and non from the Justice League.

Cyborgs History was allready pre flashpoint kind of messy (with the whole Tecnis Imperative thing), and I can't remember any Titans villains that had any strong connection with Cyborg. (Honestly Cyborg got probaly the least focus and development of all the main members back in Marv Wolfmans run).

Also with issue # 4 the Martian Manhunter only had about 17,000 copies ordered.

That there are characters that sell even worse, doesn't automatically make Cyborg a strong seller. And quality of writing and sales are also not always correlated.

[Aahz]

The larger reality is that the superhero market is already cornered, and has been for 50 years. The last new superhero character to make a lasting splash in this industry was Wolverine - and he debuted 45 years ago.

I would claim that there have been newer characters that made a "splash", like Harley Quinn and Deadpool, but it still only happens on rare occasions.

[king81992]

Cyborgs History was allready pre flashpoint kind of messy (with the whole Tecnis Imperative thing), and I can't remember any Titans villains that had any strong connection with Cyborg. (Honestly Cyborg got probaly the least focus and development of all the main members back in Marv Wolfmans run).

That there are characters that sell even worse, doesn't automatically make Cyborg a strong seller. And quality of writing and sales are also not always correlated.

Brother Blood was Cyborg's villain(one of Cyborg's friends got killed after they left Brother Blood's cult) until writers gave him a connection to Trigon.

[Vampire Savior]

I would claim that there have been newer characters that made a "splash", like Harley Quinn and Deadpool, but it still only happens on rare occasions.

There is also Spawn, Venom, Carnage, Cable, Lobo and many others that have made a splash. I would say that it's only been since the 2000s that we have stopped seeing new characters working much.