Snyder cut MIGHT be released...

[SiegePerilous02]

I have no interest in classic mainstream superman myself. He is lazy, arrogant, pushover, passionless, savior compex driven, non genuine goody two shoes naive, flying brick. I like siegel and shuster's superman. So, i wouldn't call that a sin. I like some other good portrayals as well.

Siegel and Shuster's Golden Age Supes IS the classic Superman.

Aside from smashing that doucebag's truck in MoS, I don't see much of him in DCEU Superman anymore than I do other versions.

[Gaius]

Nothing that's been doled out from what was supposed to be Snyder's version of the film seemed better than what was in the theatrical release, so disappointing to see WB caving in on this even if it's ultimately to draw subscriber attention to HBO Max.

[manwhohaseverything]

Siegel and Shuster's Golden Age Supes IS the classic Superman.

Aside from smashing that doucebag's truck in MoS, I don't see much of him in DCEU Superman anymore than I do other versions.

I am sorry, to @Vordan, @stargazer01 and everyone here. I was a little frustrated with the whole prejudicest mindset before the actual story unfolded. But Yeah! It doesn't feel like it most of the time.

Dceu superman has tons of goldenage superman in him. But, he isn't goldenage superman. Superman wanders around as an urban myth. Comes out as a vigilante to save lois in front of the whole world.He shows his true self to lois first. lois is petrified of the alien. His parents tell him to hide his powers in fear of repercussions .he literally learns to fly and who he is. He breaks his limits.His powers comes from physiology, gravity, atmosphere... Etc. He has built in tension with government and army. He is loved by the army men, but is seen as and sometimes is a threat to the government and the army. He is a controversial figure for the world, Liked by the people he comes in contact with. So yeah! If you don't see it. You don't. I see plenty of that guy in him more so than most of the mainstream shlock.

[Vordan]

Question disagrees with you. That is entirely possible future for superman. Btw, question paid a big price for the naivety of the boyscout in story. Yeah! Yeah! He is jesus christ in a strongman suit. I get it. I also hate it.

You “hate it” but you like Snyder’s take with Jesus references galore? And no, Snyder was not “deconstructing” the concept, he was playing it as straight as he could. It’s just that the movies are terrible and thus none of the savior imagery makes any sense.

Siegel and Shuster's Golden Age Supes IS the classic Superman.

Aside from smashing that doucebag's truck in MoS, I don't see much of him in DCEU Superman anymore than I do other versions.

DCEU Superman is a mix of Byrne, Earth One, and Injustice Superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

You “hate it” but you like Snyder’s take with Jesus references galore? And no, Snyder was not “deconstructing” the concept, he was playing it as straight as he could. It’s just that the movies are terrible and thus none of the savior imagery makes any sense.

You saying he wasn't deconstructing the concept doesn't mean that's what i got from it or what's been given to me on paper. Have you watched evangalion or full-metal-alchemist or read the immortal hulk series? Using an imagery and playing the part are two different things.

[Pinsir]

The original Superman film introduced elements to the Superman mythos that did not exist prior to the film, such as Pa Kent dying of a heart, but his mother surviving, crystal technology, landlord Luthor and probably some more stuff. It was the radio show that introduced kryptonite and the animated shorts that introduced flying. Adaptations of Superman have always introduced new elements to the character and this includes themes and tones. Superman's character and world has changed consistently since he was first conceived off.

You don't like MoS? Okay, but it really isn't a legitimate to say its a bad film because 'it isn't Superman.'

[SiegePerilous02]

DCEU Superman is a mix of Byrne, Earth One, and Injustice Superman.

Oof, that's a bad combo because all three of those were bad.

The original Superman film introduced elements to the Superman mythos that did not exist prior to the film, such as Pa Kent dying of a heart, but his mother surviving, crystal technology, landlord Luthor and probably some more stuff. It was the radio show that introduced kryptonite and the animated shorts that introduced flying. Adaptations of Superman have always introduced new elements to the character and this includes themes and tones. Superman's character and world has changed consistently since he was first conceived off.

You don't like MoS? Okay, but it really isn't a legitimate to say its a bad film because 'it isn't Superman.'

That just means the well received and popular adaptations will come up with new stuff that will seamlessly fit in with the character, or be true to the spirit of them, and subsequently be folded into the main stuff. It helps that Superman was still "forming" when Kryptonite was invented in a radio early in his career and the major elements that consistently stick around after they are added weren't cemented in wider public consciousness yet. What new stuff did MoS bring to the table that is comparable to any of that stuff? it was pretty much Donner again but with a mix of Byrne and a gritty gloss thrown over.

It's more divisive response instead of outright rejection means MoS had potential. I think it's far and away the best of the pre-WW DCEU films. But there has to be more than "it isn't Superman" going on for BvS to go over poorly with a lot of critics and general audiences. it's not like we can entirely say "they were just mad their expectations weren't met" because the film's advertisement didn't hide that it was going to be darker movie.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah!@vordan is entirely wrong about injustice. He is only right about earth one and byrne superman. That's not all the comics the movie took influences from.Goldenage s&s origin, for tomorrow, all star superman , birthright, secret origins,... Etc are some of the other influences. His superman is an amalgam of almost every version of the character. Furthermore, snyder didn't introduce much things as new. Everything is from comics. Hence preexisting.
Yeah! For the guys that cry classic. he even took influences from donner.

If you don't see goldenage superman in this scene. Then i can't help you. I have a couple more scenes like this.
lois scared of superman
satellite scene
he might be a guy trying to do the right thing. Not jesus or devil figure
superman gets nuked by the same people he protects

See, to dispel an premise or argument you need to engage it honestly . So, i felt snyder was engaging the premise that makes superman in to the savior or devil figure. The guy literally made batman a villain. I coukd be wrong. But, i am gonna stick to this line of thinking till further evidence isn't provided to me.

[Vakanai]

I really hope you are right about all that. I have to wait and see to be sure. After this announcement and the way AT&T are promoting it, I feel we could have more surprises coming..

There is a reason both Aquaman and WW retconned some things from the Snyder version of the characters. It made the characters look too dark and pessimistic. I hope their success and impact have some weight in all this and show those execs what is that general audiences and most fans really want to see.



His ideal story was turning Superman into a weak man going evil after Lois' murder... That scene in BvS when Bruce is having a "dream/vision" or whatever, it was a possible future. That was dark/evil Superman at his worst. Vengeful. I really hope and pray WB and AT&T don't let him put that version of the character in his JL movie. That would ruin Cavill as Superman in my mind.

Two things - 1) Of course AT&T is promoting it, they're a corporation looking to make a profit, they promote everything they make. But there's no surprises coming, not after Aquaman made a billion. They're going all in now on a more Marvel direction, with the occasional dark out of continuity film because Joker made a billion. But Snyder never gave them a billion, so that era is through.

2) Doesn't matter if that would ruin Cavill Superman in your mind because he's through too. He's too associated with a widely divisive take on the character. If you like Cavill as Superman then you should probably be one of the ones grateful to be getting this film, because it's the last of him as Superman we'll probably ever see.

[Gaius]

Eh, given the popularity of the game in interval between MoS and BvS I can see the Injustice influence on DCEU Superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

Eh, given the popularity of the game in interval between MoS and BvS I can see the Injustice influence on DCEU Superman.

As if injustice was the first time superman scorched someone with heat vision as the devil. Superman has been made in to the devil since dark knight returns. It doesn't need injustice for that.So if making superman into that figure is his desire. Then the story would told from the start in an entirely different way. If wanted superman as the devil or savior. He would be playing into the nonsense.
In death of superman book, Superman's death is made into spectacle like christs death was. While, clark in the movie is buried like a man with a sickly old mother.The former plays into the savior nonsense,latter doesn't.

[Stromberg]

OMG! This isn't about rewarding bad behavior or good behavior. It isn't setting a dangerous precedent. This is about a company seeing a demand, seeing a growing controversy which amps up interest, sees a safer way of giving people what they want rather than risking a theatrical release and making money.
Not only is this not a "dangerous" precedent, it's not a precedent at all. Companies revive things all the time because of fan demand. Shows are brought back from cancellation, are picked up by other networks...The only thing new is the overwhelming, irrational vitriol on both sides.
This is a movie about people who talk to fish, who dress up like a bat, who are half robot... It's just entertainment. It's not that important.

[Cyberstrike]

I hope that I never see Cavil as Superman or in anything else (that doesn't involve him getting a hook crane in the face) again, because he is IMHO the worst actor of his generation. My cat could play Superman, Napoleon Solo, and Geralt better than he can. He might a great dude in real life but as actor he sucks.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

From what I understand, Snyder's original intent was for Lois Lane to be killed by Darkseid which inflicts enough of an emotional blow to Superman for him to be infected by the Anti-Life Equation and transforms him into the evil Superman we saw in the BvS Knightmare sequence. While I'm not a fan of evil mind-controlled Superman stories, I don't think Snyder's idea was necessarily out of character given that all he would have been doing was combining elements of the Superman TAS's "Son of Darkseid" arc, Kingdom Come and Injustice. This is what Snyder had done in all of his DCEU, remix various ideas that already existed within the history of the characters.

However, all this is moot because, according to Snyder, this was the plot point that Geoff Johns reportedly reigned Snyder in on because he, correctly I think, understood that Snyder hadn't spent enough time in his films to establish Cavill's Superman as a symbol of hope and optimism yet, but was relying too much upon Superman's iconic status. Essentially, Snyder was trying to deconstruct Superman for audiences before they'd had a chance to even see the idealised version.

In other words, Snyder was taking for granted that today's audiences were already intimately familiar with the bright, smiling Donner version from 40 years ago, which wasn't really the case since the last time that version had been seen was in Singer's Superman Returns years earlier, which similarly featured a more brooding mopey version of the character.

I'm sure the Snyder Cut will contain hints to what he originally planned, since it's highly unlikely that Geoff Johns will be in any way involved with this new version (aside from collecting a pay check thanks to his producer's credit, of course). However, there's only so much Snyder can do with the footage he has available. I don't think they have the kind of budget to be able to bring in Henry Cavill to grimace his way through a bunch of new scenes in order to set up sequels that WB has no intention of making now.

[Wandering_Wand]

OMG! This isn't about rewarding bad behavior or good behavior. It isn't setting a dangerous precedent. This is about a company seeing a demand, seeing a growing controversy which amps up interest, sees a safer way of giving people what they want rather than risking a theatrical release and making money.
Not only is this not a "dangerous" precedent, it's not a precedent at all. Companies revive things all the time because of fan demand. Shows are brought back from cancellation, are picked up by other networks...The only thing new is the overwhelming, irrational vitriol on both sides.
This is a movie about people who talk to fish, who dress up like a bat, who are half robot... It's just entertainment. It's not that important.

Preach.

It's very simple: if you don't want to watch it, if you don't like Snyder, don't watch the movie. However, get out of the way of the millions of people across the world who want to see Snyder's original vision properly finished without studio interference to the degree that they release a frankenstein's monster of nonsense that completely retcons a universe that was only, what, 3-4 movies in? WB is as much to blame as Snyder in any argument we have about this.

From what I understand, Snyder's original intent was for Lois Lane to be killed by Darkseid which inflicts enough of an emotional blow to Superman for him to be infected by the Anti-Life Equation and transforms him into the evil Superman we saw in the BvS Knightmare sequence. While I'm not a fan of evil mind-controlled Superman stories, I don't think Snyder's idea was necessarily out of character given that all he would have been doing was combining elements of the Superman TAS's "Son of Darkseid" arc, Kingdom Come and Injustice. This is what Snyder had done in all of his DCEU, remix various ideas that already existed within the history of the characters.

However, all this is moot because, according to Snyder, this was the plot point that Geoff Johns reportedly reigned Snyder in on because he, correctly I think, understood that Snyder hadn't spent enough time in his films to establish Cavill's Superman as a symbol of hope and optimism yet, but was relying too much upon Superman's iconic status. Essentially, Snyder was trying to deconstruct Superman for audiences before they'd had a chance to even see the idealised version.

In other words, Snyder was taking for granted that today's audiences were already intimately familiar with the bright, smiling Donner version from 40 years ago, which wasn't really the case since the last time that version had been seen was in Singer's Superman Returns years earlier, which similarly featured a more brooding mopey version of the character.

I'm sure the Snyder Cut will contain hints to what he originally planned, since it's highly unlikely that Geoff Johns will be in any way involved with this new version (aside from collecting a pay check thanks to his producer's credit, of course). However, there's only so much Snyder can do with the footage he has available. I don't think they have the kind of budget to be able to bring in Henry Cavill to grimace his way through a bunch of new scenes in order to set up sequels that WB has no intention of making now.

I like this post. I like that you actually provided something constructive based in both opinion and what information is out there.


As for me, I'm excited to see Snyder finish everything out. Then again, I'm a big fan of his and I enjoyed what he was doing with the DC properties. Thanks to WB, HBO, and AT&T for doing this. Congrats to all the supporters and curious bystanders. To the haters, I'll be drinking a glass of whiskey when the first episode (unless they decide to drop the entire thing) on HBO Max next year and will raise my glass to you.