Examples of Pre-Flashpoint Canon Reasserting Itself in the DC Universe

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-flas...inuity-change/

[upgrayedd]

This makes me kind of miss the old members of CBR who would argue about this kind of stuff.
They would say something about Magneta always being bipolar (see what I did there) and these were not real memories or something

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This makes me kind of miss the old members of CBR who would argue about this kind of stuff.
They would say something about Magneta always being bipolar (see what I did there) and these were not real memories or something

I think the more likely response would be that they're just memories so far, which is fair. But then the response to that would be that Rebirth has made it clear that those memories are from moments taken from this timeline, not some parallel universe's timeline, and the entire point of Rebirth has seemingly been to restore those moments to the timeline.

[TruthAndJustice]

https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-flas...inuity-change/

Yep. I'm sure the official origin of the JL(A) is returning to what it was before the reboot. Sure, Cyborg joined the JL at some point. He even did that before the New 52. But he wasn't a founder. I'm betting that lots of New 52-era JL/JLA stories are being "over-written." Can't say I mind.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

For what it's worth, the latest issue of Justice League re-affirmed that Cyborg founded the League, so let's not go celebrating the demise of the New 52 Justice League origin yet

[Buried Alien]

For what it's worth, the latest issue of Justice League re-affirmed that Cyborg founded the League, so let's not go celebrating the demise of the New 52 Justice League origin yet

Man...does the left hand know what the right hand is doing in terms of continuity over at DC Comics?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Man...does the left hand know what the right hand is doing in terms of continuity over at DC Comics?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

To be fair, I honestly think the point of all this is that the continuity of the DCU is in complete chaos. This was made explicit in the JLA's overlong Microverse arc that literally showed its residents being erased, rewritten and rebooted by timestorms caused by Manhattan's theft of the ten years of time.

However, I think they need to sort out the Cyborg/Martian Manhunter/New Teen Titans fiasco quickly. If it was generating great new stories, I might be in favor of it, but there's nothing that's been added by removing J'Onn and the NTT from history and making Cyborg a founder rather than a long-standing member of the League.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

While Blackest Night has always been known to have survived as part of DC comics continuity post-Flashpoint, it wasn't known whether or not the other Earth heroes were involved in it (as originally told) or if it was just Green Lanterns. May's Wonder Woman solicit put that question to rest, as it references Wonder Woman being a Star Sapphire. That's important because it is a throwback to two things: (1) Diana's (and therefore, everyone else's) involvement in Blackest Night and (2) Wonder Woman's prior deaths in Pre-Flashpoint continuity, because she was only made into a Star Sapphire in order to break the Black Lantern ring's influence over her (the Black Lantern ring possesses those who have died previously).

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Well, this week's issue of Nightwing was surely confusing. Apparently, Dick's time as a Hudson University student, retired from the Robin identity and the Titans is back. It also undoes the notion of Rebirth being the first time he's lived in Blüdhaven. Also, Starfire is implied to have been a Teen Titan alongside him and they had a serious relationship and Dick being the leader of the team, like in the old NTT comics. However, its sort of implied that the timeline has the order of events wrong (or Humphries does)?

Didn't Dick drop out of college when the NTT first formed? I guess since he's apparently doing a semester at the law school, this implies that he returned to the college to do grad work, but its confusing whether he returned to college after reforming the Titans (and then disbanding again) or if Starfire joined up before he went to Hudson.

[Buried Alien]

Well, this week's issue of Nightwing was surely confusing. Apparently, Dick's time as a Hudson University student, retired from the Robin identity and the Titans is back. It also undoes the notion of Rebirth being the first time he's lived in Blüdhaven. Also, Starfire is implied to have been a Teen Titan alongside him and they had a serious relationship and Dick being the leader of the team, like in the old NTT comics. However, its sort of implied that the timeline has the order of events wrong (or Humphries does)?

Didn't Dick drop out of college when the NTT first formed? I guess since he's apparently doing a semester at the law school, this implies that he returned to the college to do grad work, but its confusing whether he returned to college after reforming the Titans (and then disbanding again) or if Starfire joined up before he went to Hudson.

That period was a bit chaotic long before FLASHPOINT. There was a time when a young adult Robin (Dick Grayson) was operating on his own or as the leader of the New Teen Titans, and only very occasionally returned to Gotham to briefly visit with Batman. Basically, all of the 1969-1984 era. How much time actually elapsed within continuity, however, has always been kind of up for grabs. The flashback story from BATMAN # 408, "Did Robin Die Tonight" - did that take place before or after Dick would have left for Hudson University? Before or after he became the leader of the New Teen Titans? Before or after the various solo Robin adventures published during the 1970s?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That period was a bit chaotic long before FLASHPOINT. There was a time when a young adult Robin (Dick Grayson) was operating on his own or as the leader of the New Teen Titans, and only very occasionally returning to Gotham to briefly visit with Batman. Basically, all of the 1969-1984 era. However much time actually elapsed within continuity, however, has always been kind of up for grabs. The flashback story from BATMAN # 408, "Did Robin Die Tonight" - did that take place before or after Dick would have left for Hudson University? Before or after he became the leader of the New Teen Titans? Before or after the various solo Robin adventures published during the 1970s?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I mean, that sort of stuff isn't really hard to fit into a timeline. What's confusing here is that he's seen talking on the phone with Kory while he's apparently a student at Hudson University, whereas before the NTT formed (and therefore before meeting Kory), he'd dropped out. Two events that used to be fixed and known have now apparently been swapped. Its possible that Humphries just got the timeline wrong or that he's writing in that Dick at some point returned to HU.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

That period was a bit chaotic long before FLASHPOINT. There was a time when a young adult Robin (Dick Grayson) was operating on his own or as the leader of the New Teen Titans, and only very occasionally returned to Gotham to briefly visit with Batman. Basically, all of the 1969-1984 era. How much time actually elapsed within continuity, however, has always been kind of up for grabs. The flashback story from BATMAN # 408, "Did Robin Die Tonight" - did that take place before or after Dick would have left for Hudson University? Before or after he became the leader of the New Teen Titans? Before or after the various solo Robin adventures published during the 1970s?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I've tried and failed on numerous occasions to come up with some sort of workable Pre-Crisis timeline for Earth-1, but Dick Grayson being 18 from 1969 to 1984 makes that nearly impossible.

The fanboy-confounding fact of the matter is that DC didn't much care about having any kind of internal logic to their sliding timeline until the Post-Crisis era. Up to the early 1970s, both DC and Marvel had their characters operating in more or less real time, with Julie Shwartz literally telling readers to not think about it too much when Steve Englehart pointed out how many years ago the JLA was founded.

[Buried Alien]

I've tried and failed on numerous occasions to come up with some sort of workable Pre-Crisis timeline for Earth-1, but Dick Grayson being 18 from 1969 to 1984 makes that nearly impossible.

The fanboy-confounding fact of the matter is that DC didn't much care about having any kind of internal logic to their sliding timeline until the Post-Crisis era. Up to the early 1970s, both DC and Marvel had their characters operating in more or less real time, with Julie Shwartz literally telling readers to not think about it too much when Steve Englehart pointed out how many years ago the JLA was founded.

Yeah...somehow, Barry Allen went from a crew-cutted, bowtie-wearing Eisenhower-era guy in 1956 to a leisure-suit and turtleneck wearing guy by 1976 without looking a DAY older.

And yes, Dick Grayson was somehow eighteen years old from 1969 until around 1983.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I mean, that sort of stuff isn't really hard to fit into a timeline. What's confusing here is that he's seen talking on the phone with Kory while he's apparently a student at Hudson University, whereas before the NTT formed (and therefore before meeting Kory), he'd dropped out. Two events that used to be fixed and known have now apparently been swapped. Its possible that Humphries just got the timeline wrong or that he's writing in that Dick at some point returned to HU.

Dick isn't a Hudson University student in the story though. He's taking a semester at Bludhaven University, so it's just being retroactively inserted after Dick dropped out of Hudson, and formed the New Teen Titans, where he started dating Kory, and when he officially gave up being Robin after Jason Todd took over, but before he officially became Nightwing. It's been a while since I read the New Teen Titans, but I'm pretty sure that you can fit this new story of Dick's time at Bludhaven U into his established history pretty easily. I think I remember Kory and Dick being broken up during that period, too, but my memory is fuzzy. Wasn't Starfire in the midst of some Tamaranian arranged marriage subplot around that time?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah...somehow, Barry Allen went from a crew-cutted, bowtie-wearing Eisenhower-era guy in 1956 to a leisure-suit and turtleneck wearing guy by 1976 without looking a DAY older.

And yes, Dick Grayson was somehow eighteen years old from 1969 until around 1983.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

And let's not forget the adult Wonder Woman operating around the same time or earlier than Superboy, because she has to be in Man's World as Wonder Woman to save the infant Donna Troy from a fire, along with the thrice resurrected Steve Trevor

As many headaches as the Post-Crisis continuity caused for us timeline nerds, I totally understand why Wolfman, Wein and others felt the need to sort out the mess that the Pre-Crisis continuity had become...