All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[king mob]

So UKIP have won the European Elections, well, the elections in England. Even so this is the first time in a post war era that a party that isn't the Tories or Labour have won an election. As much as it pains me to say it, this is a major bit of news and could well be the breakthrough UKIP have been waiting on.

However, the Scottish results are coming in later, and predictions are that UKIP may only have got maybe 5% of the vote. Nowhere near enough to get an MEP. One story you'll be hard to find in all the fuss about UKIP is that the Greens have the 4th largest vote so far and have beaten the Lib Dems down to 5th. The BNP have also been wiped out, but it really does seem as if that vote was transferred right to UKIP. Also the turnout is pathetic. 34% so far. That won't be the case in the General Election but 34% is pitiful.

To take my part of the UK into account in the South West, we have 6 MEP's. Two Tory, two UKIP, one Labour and a newly elected Green. Two bloody UKIP MEP's who won't turn up but UKIP were exceptionally good in getting people off their arses to vote for them, as to be fair, were the Greens.

Across the whole of Europe the far right have won massive victories and it is frankly, fucking depressing this morning. There's a few chinks of joy, but there's a lot that's led to this and also, I hope people like Russell Brand are happy now. Campaigning for people not to vote lets in the likes of UKIP.

[king mob]

And also, the major parties are swinging more towards UKIP to push this ridiculous idea of British exceptionalism. Case in point, Michael Gove is banning American literature from the curriculum in order to concentrate on British work. No more Harper Lee or Steinbeck or anything great America (and indeed it seems, any other country apart from the UK) have given us.

Classics of American literature, including Harper Lee’s To Kill a Mockingbird and John Steinbeck’s Of Mice and Men, have been dropped from the English literature GCSE syllabus following demands reportedly made by Michael Gove.

The Education Secretary said students ought to focus on works by British writers such as Jane Austen and Shakespeare, The Sunday Times reported.

OCR, one the UK’s biggest exam boards, told the newspaper: "Of Mice and Men, which Michael Gove really dislikes, will not be included. It was studied by 90 per cent of teenagers taking English literature GCSE in the past.

"Michael Gove said that was a really disappointing statistic. In the new syllabus 70-80 per cent of the books are from the English canon."

But the reform has been criticised by academics, who have said it will deter students from pursuing the subject.

[Lucette]

Throw in the huge economic disruptions that fighting it will cause, WTF are the folks that mine coal, And work in the oil industry supposed to do when those are curtailed/ended? Work in factories that have moved overseas? Work three jobs for shit wages just to try and keep their heads above water, that is if those jobs are available? ... / ... Both parties are perfectly willing to sell out for cash as the bipartisan support for NAFTA and the like shows all to well. ... / ... grandchildren

The best strategies would be to either move people to green industries or to engage in ''sustainable development'' - which still mines coal and oil but at a slower pace and has the refinery near by. The present strategy is rip and ship - get it out of the ground as quickly as possible and ship it elsewhere (often across the ocean) to be refined. Because they are trying to get it out of the ground as quickly as possible, you get an influx of people for the work, but there is not the infrastructure for them. You also don't get families but single people who come down to work and then go home to their families.

Because of rip and ship, the companies are not going to invest in safety because they don't plan to be around very long - and have bought themselves limited liability. It means more workplace accidents, more leaky pipes, more use of the dot-111 train cars, and no plan for clean up. This also creates a boom and bust cycle in the community - where there are jobs but only for a few years.

Then there is the displacement of existing workers - in farming, fishing, tourist industry etc. For example, look at what the oil spill did to the fishing industry in the Gulf coast! And then there are the health effects. Water and property rights mentioned earlier.

I hear you about NAFTA - and about the TPP and about the TTIP (called TAFTA for 5 minutes, but some people still call it that, CETA in Canada). Got to spread the message.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XNsWc4q0kM

But certain ideologies do so more than others. Pretty much any study I've seen shows Tea Partiers or Libertarians are more likely to believe that Global Warming is a hoax, the IRS deliberately targeted them, Obama is a Muslim/Kenyan/Communist, etc. What conspiracy theories are the domain of the American left? 9/11 Conspiracy theories were popular during Bush, but since Obama's election that has recided mostly to the libertarians.

Conspiracy theories are a tool used for those without power so it makes sense that as ideologies fall and come into power, those who lose become more conspiratorial.

There are those who believe that the tea party used to be good but that it was coopted - that would be a nerd based conspiracy theory - trying to figure out why the TP seem to change from what their early experiences were. My personal conspiracy theory (which I believe and created) is that, at the beginning, the tea party was one giant focus group - that the people behind it wanted to figure out who figured that their voices were not being heard, what their issues were, and how to use that information to both sell market solutions to their issues or use that information for other purposes.

Global warming being a hoax or Obama the secret Muslim would be think tank based conspiracy theories - there are vested interests in promoting those theories and big money behind spreading those messages. There was a Fifth Estate called The Denial Machine which said that the same ad company and some of the same scientists who promoted the idea that there was no link between smoking and cancer are also behind the denial concerning climate change.

The problem with conspiracy theories on the left is that many of them ultimately turn out to be true. Think MK-Ultra where Ewan Cameron and the CIA teamed up to perform experiments on Canadians suffering from baby blues etc. Think of the Snowden revelations. Think of the people asking the wording of something to be changed because it could be interpreted a specific way - and who don't believe the assurances that it never will be interpreted that way. These are all left-winged conspiracy theories.

In Canada, there is some indication that the Tories may be using income tax returns to update their mailing database. There was a woman who only lived in a place for 4 months - she was terminally ill and had come to be with family to die. The family said that no one knew she lived there - and the only paperwork on her behalf was when they filed her income tax and gave their place as her last address - and she got a letter addressed to her after her death. And another family had a kid that just turned 18 and filed a return and he's now one the mailing list too. This was first brought up in Parliament in November 2013 and I get the feeling that it is going to come up Monday as well.

[Pinsir]

I haven't seen it reported much in the American press, but there was a shooting at a Jewish museum in Brussels on Saturday that left 4 dead and is said to be similar to a 2012 terrorist attack on a Jewish school in France. The 4th victim died in the hospital.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27558918

I heard about this, but I don't think the suspect was caught. He could either be a Neo-Nazi or Muslim, in the USA its usually a Neo-Nazi. I read a statistic once that there are more neo-nazis in Belgium now then there were Nazi sympathizers during WWII or something. The country might have been Netherlands too.

So UKIP have won the European Elections, well, the elections in England. Even so this is the first time in a post war era that a party that isn't the Tories or Labour have won an election. As much as it pains me to say it, this is a major bit of news and could well be the breakthrough UKIP have been waiting on.

However, the Scottish results are coming in later, and predictions are that UKIP may only have got maybe 5% of the vote. Nowhere near enough to get an MEP. One story you'll be hard to find in all the fuss about UKIP is that the Greens have the 4th largest vote so far and have beaten the Lib Dems down to 5th. The BNP have also been wiped out, but it really does seem as if that vote was transferred right to UKIP. Also the turnout is pathetic. 34% so far. That won't be the case in the General Election but 34% is pitiful.

To take my part of the UK into account in the South West, we have 6 MEP's. Two Tory, two UKIP, one Labour and a newly elected Green. Two bloody UKIP MEP's who won't turn up but UKIP were exceptionally good in getting people off their arses to vote for them, as to be fair, were the Greens.

Across the whole of Europe the far right have won massive victories and it is frankly, fucking depressing this morning. There's a few chinks of joy, but there's a lot that's led to this and also, I hope people like Russell Brand are happy now. Campaigning for people not to vote lets in the likes of UKIP.

Yeah, France, Denmark (), Greece and Austria swept the euroskeptics in, which includes Greece's Golden Dawn Party which is an obvious neo-nazi party. Meanwhile India elected a Hindu nationalist (the country hasn't done this before, because you know a Hindu nationalist killed Gandhi) and a Islamic-party-in-every-thing-but-name-only still runs Turkey (despite the country being founded on secularist principles.)

This is clearly a good and healthy direction.

[Pinsir]

There are those who believe that the tea party used to be good but that it was coopted - that would be a nerd based conspiracy theory - trying to figure out why the TP seem to change from what their early experiences were. My personal conspiracy theory (which I believe and created) is that, at the beginning, the tea party was one giant focus group - that the people behind it wanted to figure out who figured that their voices were not being heard, what their issues were, and how to use that information to both sell market solutions to their issues or use that information for other purposes.

The Tea Party certainly had some legitimate points, but almost initially they were co-opted by corporate interests. Nevertheless though many TP candidates do and continuing be a thorn in the Republican estableshment. If the best people the GOP have for 2016 is Jeb Bush and Chris Christie...compared to Ted Cruz and Rand Paul...

The problem with conspiracy theories on the left is that many of them ultimately turn out to be true. Think MK-Ultra where Ewan Cameron and the CIA teamed up to perform experiments on Canadians suffering from baby blues etc. Think of the Snowden revelations. Think of the people asking the wording of something to be changed because it could be interpreted a specific way - and who don't believe the assurances that it never will be interpreted that way. These are all left-winged conspiracy theories.

In Canada, there is some indication that the Tories may be using income tax returns to update their mailing database. There was a woman who only lived in a place for 4 months - she was terminally ill and had come to be with family to die. The family said that no one knew she lived there - and the only paperwork on her behalf was when they filed her income tax and gave their place as her last address - and she got a letter addressed to her after her death. And another family had a kid that just turned 18 and filed a return and he's now one the mailing list too. This was first brought up in Parliament in November 2013 and I get the feeling that it is going to come up Monday as well.

Still I remember during the last federal election there were some robocalls gave misleading directions in one municipality in Manitoba or something. There were claims that Harper stole the election which clearly didn't happen and it could easily be a mistake. But the liberals lost pretty badly during it and in democratic societies conspiracy theories are more common with those out of power than with. When a political power starts spouting conspiracy theories while in power that is a clear sign of authoritarianism.

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

in democratic societies conspiracy theories are more common with those out of power than with.

Are you sure? The US sure loves to magnify terrorism as a threat.

[CenturianSpy]

What conspiracy theories are the domain of the American left?

Recently, Voter ID laws are an attempt to disenfranchise (take away their vote) African-Americans, the War-on-Woman, and FOX News created all the "phony" scandals.

[LoneNecromancer]

And also, the major parties are swinging more towards UKIP to push this ridiculous idea of British exceptionalism. Case in point, Michael Gove is banning American literature from the curriculum in order to concentrate on British work. No more Harper Lee or Steinbeck or anything great America (and indeed it seems, any other country apart from the UK) have given us.

Banning books that have to do with oppressed or struggling people in the wake of an economic crisis. Huh. Wonder what that could be telling us.

[LoneNecromancer]

So UKIP have won the European Elections, well, the elections in England. Even so this is the first time in a post war era that a party that isn't the Tories or Labour have won an election. As much as it pains me to say it, this is a major bit of news and could well be the breakthrough UKIP have been waiting on.

However, the Scottish results are coming in later, and predictions are that UKIP may only have got maybe 5% of the vote. Nowhere near enough to get an MEP. One story you'll be hard to find in all the fuss about UKIP is that the Greens have the 4th largest vote so far and have beaten the Lib Dems down to 5th. The BNP have also been wiped out, but it really does seem as if that vote was transferred right to UKIP. Also the turnout is pathetic. 34% so far. That won't be the case in the General Election but 34% is pitiful.

To take my part of the UK into account in the South West, we have 6 MEP's. Two Tory, two UKIP, one Labour and a newly elected Green. Two bloody UKIP MEP's who won't turn up but UKIP were exceptionally good in getting people off their arses to vote for them, as to be fair, were the Greens.

Across the whole of Europe the far right have won massive victories and it is frankly, fucking depressing this morning. There's a few chinks of joy, but there's a lot that's led to this and also, I hope people like Russell Brand are happy now. Campaigning for people not to vote lets in the likes of UKIP.

Agree with you on the turnout. A mate of mine has been talking to people complaining about UKIP and then hearing them say they didn't actually vote and was furious about it to me earlier. These right-wing extremists and fascists are spreading over Europe and the thing is, their supporters are going to actually vote.

EDIT: And they picked up 10.4% of the vote in Scotland and have a MEP there now.

[Mikekerr3]

Recently, Voter ID laws are an attempt to disenfranchise (take away their vote) African-Americans, the War-on-Woman, and FOX News created all the "phony" scandals.

The first two are not conspracy theories, they are established fact:

Voter id ID makes no sense in that it is taking massive action to solve a non-existent problem and we are supposed to believe that the effect being strongest among the poor and people of color is just accidental?

I gues you missed the Republican positions on Rowe, Equal pay and the equal rights amendment. The republican have been fighting woman's rights as fiercely as the Dixiecrats fought the rights of Black people

Fox doesn't creat the consevative scandals, but they do act a a megaphone too spread phoney "scandals"

Real left wing scandals are Truthers, Anti-GMO, Anti-vax and that the Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were for OIL, (Oil that US companies saw no profit from.

[Vibranium]

I do kind of agree on GMOs...but I don't care

now pass the KFC

[worstblogever]

Recently, Voter ID laws are an attempt to disenfranchise (take away their vote) African-Americans, the War-on-Woman, and FOX News created all the "phony" scandals.

The first two are not conspracy theories, they are established fact:

Voter id ID makes no sense in that it is taking massive action to solve a non-existent problem and we are supposed to believe that the effect being strongest among the poor and people of color is just accidental? .

And a lot of Republicans even admit it. Publicly.

Most famously, recently...

GOP official in Pennsylvania who pushed for it to help Romney win his state in the 2012 election (it was overturned by a judge).


A certain North Carolina Republican in a Daily Show interview.

[Charles RB]

Pfizer drops its takeover bid of AstraZeneca after AstraZeneca said "No! NO!" repeatedly. By the time it can legally make another bid, the US may have closed the tax loophole that made them want AZ in the first place.

The fact UKIP would dissolve the Scottish Parliament and return Scotland and Wales to being fiefdoms of Westminster, something people aren't too happy about.

They changed that policy in late 2013. Swathes of the party were not happy with it though. And now Farage is trying to present his party as being the true Scottish independence guys by going GASP, the SNP isn't doing a referendum on Europe!

Despite all that that, Scotland voted one UKIP MEP and so did Wales,and London. That basically says everything about how Britain votes in the European Parliament - UKIP finally make a dent in Scotland and get someone in London, right after London rejected them in councils, and it's as an MEP, the job most people think doesn't effect them. They won because people don't care about the European Parliament.

Michael Gove is banning American literature from the curriculum in order to concentrate on British work.

Unless it's 19th century American literature, then it can stay in. They really want the curriculum to be focused on pre-1914 work.

Scrapping a book because Gove personally dislikes it - if OCR's right - is shabby as hell. You need a better reason than that to swap a book out.

[Charles RB]

More of the MEP results across Europe, and how outright Nazis got in.

Screw it. Every country that went neo-Nazi, let them suffer. Let their economies get worse and let chaos rain and all the social poison in the mud come out as a direct result. Let the people who voted Front National and People's Party and so forth bleed. We know what Nazis and fascists do and the continent waded in blood up to its armpits last time, if people who voted them in suffer worse than they have during the recession then they damn well have it coming.

[PwrdOn]

Looks like that Greek guy on the right is a fan of Rob Liefeld. Also, why the hell is there a Nordic League in Italy? And does this mean that Putin was right all along?