Black Panther Appreciation 2019

[Blind Wedjat]

Would vibranium bullets be an option to make him more vulnerable in the sequel?

That's the last thing I would want. That's just boring. The movie already established sound waves as the suit's weakness.

Like I said, the action scenes don't have to be about T'Challa getting hurt. Let the bad guys make it harder for him by trying to hurt other people, or make him look like the bad guy. That's what you should do with someone like T'Challa.

[KingNomarch]

Would vibranium bullets be an option to make him more vulnerable in the sequel?

A vibranium sword couldn't damage the new suit, I dont think a bullet would work

[Mr MajestiK]

Yeah.. Nevermind the fact that Coogler was able to create a Billy dollar BP movie, one that shattered all types of records and was the first marvel movie (and 3rd in cinema history in the US) to gross 700 mil domestic and get nominated and win some Oscars while having the movie get talked about and referenced in other tv shows all this time after the movie dropped... Nah if he can produce the level of action sequences that JW3 had then he deserves a hat tip.... By the way, all 3 John Wick movies with domestic and WW numbers combined still don't match BPs domestic cume.. but Nah man let's keep worrying that Coogler somehow ain't been making history with BP and that he needs to really buckle down and get it right this time

Bro, withe exception of the two waterfall action scenes coupled with the Casino scene, the fight choreography for T'Challa was underwhelming.

To date Captain America:Winter Soldier remains the absolute, hands down best MCU studio as far as purely unambiguous fight choreography for the titular protagonist goes.

There wasn't a single action sequence in the BP movie featuring T'Challa that came close to matching the fight in the elevator scene featuring Steve Rogers fighting of Hydra agents in a confined space.

Ryan Coogler needs to get a lot more serious with the fight choreography in the BP sequel because there's no room for half arseing things moving forward.

He'll!

Okoye, Lupita and Killmonger were straight up badass on the fight front compared to T'Challa.

[KingNomarch]

Okoye and Nakia? Not even close. T'Challa fight scene in the forest was just savage and had me wondering why he wasn't moving like that in CW. The only one that's debatable is Killmonger.

[MindofShadow]

Not being as good as TWS =/= bad lol

Yeesh, that's like saying the action in the Bourne trilogy sucks because it isn't as good as John Wick trilogy.

I'd take the action sequences as a whole in BP over all three IM movies, both GoG, Spider-man, Dr Strange, Thor, Thor 2, both Ant-Man, Hulk, Cap 1, any of the DCEU films, and any of the FoXmen films

It doesn't match TWS, I like Ragnoraks action better than TWS personally, and it probably isn't fair to compare to the 5 avengers films tbh (av, aou, iw, eg, CW) because those are designed for "spectacle" action sequences with multiple characters and powersets.

I also think Russos' action fights with T'challa in CW are massively overrated by this thread outside of the first one in CW. Dude somehow ended up in a headlock by freaking hawkeye lol

[MindofShadow]

Honestly my overarching improvement would be the length for most of these. I noticed this the first time I watched the movie. I expected some fight scenes to last longer. I didn't think of it as a negative exactly but it'll be the thing I'd add for most. These are mostly nitpicks as well.

Interesting thoughts about the length. Very high frequency of fights but some are short.

Tribal fights should be short in theory (mma rounds only last 5 minutes and they have blades lol) so that is understandable. I would have liked extended nigeria scene for sure. Casino/korea was plenty long.

Have T'challa cross that field while doras fight Killmonger is an interesting idea that I really like. Would be neat.

[XPac]

That's the last thing I would want. That's just boring. The movie already established sound waves as the suit's weakness.

Like I said, the action scenes don't have to be about T'Challa getting hurt. Let the bad guys make it harder for him by trying to hurt other people, or make him look like the bad guy. That's what you should do with someone like T'Challa.

Most good movies should have both. BP like most heroes should have to occasionally face off against canon fodder who aren't in his class. He shouldn't be in any real danger in those such situations. But inevitably he should end up dealing with a villain who is a viable threat to him. You ideally want some goons, a half descent sub-boss who makes the hero at least break a sweat, and a final boss who is actually capable of beating the good guy.

[KingNomarch]

The only thing I want to see him improve on for T'Challa's action in the sequel are the use of weapons and the force push. I'm not a fan of T'Challa relying solely on h2h and his claws as his only weapons which is why I liked that he fought with a ikwla during his challenges and used a sonic spear and Killmonger's spear tip/dagger.

I think it's time he gets in the energy daggers and use them like how Priest did or go with the cool polymorphic version from EMH.

When it comes to the force push I'd like to see the next suit be able to do more with hit like Narcisse's remote detonation or have T'Challa focus it like a blast like in one of the earlier issues of Coates run or if he needs to, use it to help jump higher or faster etc. I'd like to see him channel the kinetic energy that the suit absorbs into a weapon similar to how I believe T'Chaka did with the Bashenga unit in Rise.

Also Hudlin's cool skybike needs to make an appearance so we can get some aerial action like in WitBP?

[MindofShadow]

That's the last thing I would want. That's just boring. The movie already established sound waves as the suit's weakness.

Like I said, the action scenes don't have to be about T'Challa getting hurt. Let the bad guys make it harder for him by trying to hurt other people, or make him look like the bad guy. That's what you should do with someone like T'Challa.

soundwaves
alchemy/magic
other tech (for instance, something to disrupt it coming out of the necklace. in fact, this could be a way to force him to change suits (possibly a much older one) to avoid the issue later and TOYS lol)
anti-metal
reverbium possibly
the villain straight up challenging him to be "more than the suit, I thought you were a warrior" and tchalla takes it personally and turns it off

anything is better than going the lazy wolverine origins/logan route.

[Blind Wedjat]

Most good movies should have both. BP like most heroes should have to occasionally face off against canon fodder who aren't in his class. He shouldn't be in any real danger in those such situations. But inevitably he should end up dealing with a villain who is a viable threat to him. You ideally want some goons, a half descent sub-boss who makes the hero at least break a sweat, and a final boss who is actually capable of beating the good guy.

"Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved."

We've seen this way too many times, especially in recent years and more so in the MCU. It's safe, boring and is getting stale.

The whole point of a sequel is to switch things up. A bad sequel relies on what works and doesn't take necessary risks. I know not everybody likes it here, but part of what makes The Dark Knight great is that Joker was an intellectual challenge, not a physical one.

This isn't about making a copy of that movie, but understanding why that one works. Batman in that film is never really in any danger, but we know that he is losing because he's either failing to save people from themselves or the Joker, or his own moral compass is being used against him. It's compelling to watch.

What made Killmonger a great villain was that he had a point and that changed T'Challa. Being able to beat him was the bonus. You don't want to repeat this however, so you do a villain that purely intellectual and the narrative tension is whether or not T'Challa will commit to his ideals.

At the end of the first film, T'Challa makes a very bold step to open Wakanda's borders and share their resources. It's s breach in centuries worth of tradition and isolationism. The sequel needs to address and I think the best way would be with an intellectual villain. Therefore his external conflict would be about whether he can keep Wakanda and the rest of the world from harm because of his decision.

[XPac]

"Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved."

We've seen this way too many times, especially in recent years and more so in the MCU. It's safe, boring and is getting stale.

The whole point of a sequel is to switch things up. A bad sequel relies on what works and doesn't take necessary risks. I know not everybody likes it here, but part of what makes The Dark Knight great is that Joker was an intellectual challenge, not a physical one.

This isn't about making a copy of that movie, but understanding why that one works. Batman in that film is never really in any danger, but we know that he is losing because he's either failing to save people from themselves or the Joker, or his own moral compass is being used against him. It's compelling to watch.

What made Killmonger a great villain was that he had a point and that changed T'Challa. Being able to beat him was the bonus. You don't want to repeat this however, so you do a villain that purely intellectual and the narrative tension is whether or not T'Challa will commit to his ideals.

At the end of the first film, T'Challa makes a very bold step to open Wakanda's borders and share their resources. It's s breach in centuries worth of tradition and isolationism. The sequel needs to address and I think the best way would be with an intellectual villain. Therefore his external conflict would be about whether he can keep Wakanda and the rest of the world from harm because of his decision.

I don't dispute that T'Challa can't and shouldn't have intellectual threats... but I don't think that necessarily needs to replace the idea of a physical threat who can challenge him in an actual fight. The fights are an important part of the super hero genre... it just is. You can have either a physical threat who can match T'Challa physically, or a intellectual threat who can outsource some muscle to give T'Challa a run for his money. Doesn't have to be an either/or situation... he can and probably should be challenged across the board.

[Dboi654]

"Just because something works, doesn't mean it can't be improved."

We've seen this way too many times, especially in recent years and more so in the MCU. It's safe, boring and is getting stale.

The whole point of a sequel is to switch things up. A bad sequel relies on what works and doesn't take necessary risks. I know not everybody likes it here, but part of what makes The Dark Knight great is that Joker was an intellectual challenge, not a physical one.

This isn't about making a copy of that movie, but understanding why that one works. Batman in that film is never really in any danger, but we know that he is losing because he's either failing to save people from themselves or the Joker, or his own moral compass is being used against him. It's compelling to watch.

What made Killmonger a great villain was that he had a point and that changed T'Challa. Being able to beat him was the bonus. You don't want to repeat this however, so you do a villain that purely intellectual and the narrative tension is whether or not T'Challa will commit to his ideals.

At the end of the first film, T'Challa makes a very bold step to open Wakanda's borders and share their resources. It's s breach in centuries worth of tradition and isolationism. The sequel needs to address and I think the best way would be with an intellectual villain. Therefore his external conflict would be about whether he can keep Wakanda and the rest of the world from harm because of his decision.

That's why I think Enemy of the State would be a great template for a sequel and a page from Avenger's Panther's quest.

[Blind Wedjat]

It's more either/or than you think, because T'Challa is extremely tough. He almost killed one of the world's most feared assassins, easily beat a high-level SHIELD agent, fought Captain America, fought two Wakandan rhinos, fought several aliens in two wars for the fate of mankind, knocked down a guy capable of tussling with the Hulk, and wasn't hurt by a sword strike from Thanos. Really, who would you want him to fight? Who would want to fight him?

The only way to even it out is tech or magic, and they should be the focus of a physical threat main villain, rather than a side. And both can really feel cheap and cliché.

I'm not saying T'Challa shouldn't fight anyone, but they don't have to be about hurting him. Change the dynamics. Do something truly nail biting and compelling to watch. I don't see why he has to be in danger. The collateral damage fallout can be the external conflict, especially for a guy vowing to make things better, and especially for a diplomat who can go anywhere and do almost anything without fearing arrest.

[XPac]

It's more either/or than you think, because T'Challa is extremely tough. He almost killed one of the world's most feared assassins, easily beat a high-level SHIELD agent, fought Captain America, fought two Wakandan rhinos, fought several aliens in two wars for the fate of mankind, knocked down a guy capable of tussling with the Hulk, and wasn't hurt by a sword strike from Thanos. Really, who would you want him to fight? Who would want to fight him?

The only way to even it out is tech or magic, and they should be the focus of a physical threat main villain, rather than a side. And both can really feel cheap and cliché.

I'm not saying T'Challa shouldn't fight anyone, but they don't have to be about hurting him. Change the dynamics. Do something truly nail biting and compelling to watch. I don't see why he has to be in danger. The collateral damage fallout can be the external conflict, especially for a guy vowing to make things better, and especially for a diplomat who can go anywhere and do almost anything without fearing arrest.

Certainly T'Challa is really though... but certainly not tough to the point where literally no one is capable of harming him. Because his defenses are tech based more than inherent (like say a Superman), there's always a way. It's simply a matter of properly scaling the threat level to the power level of the hero. If a writer can't properly do that, he or she frankly shouldn't be writing comic characters. That's a part of the job.

[Mr MajestiK]

Okoye and Nakia? Not even close. T'Challa fight scene in the forest was just savage and had me wondering why he wasn't moving like that in CW. The only one that's debatable is Killmonger.

You could actually see the fight in the forest clearly?

Astounding.