"Superman" is a Mantle

[Gaius]

The hero we need in all GL threads. Don't ever leave us, Gaius.

[Superboy-Prime]

Dan DiDio is a legacy title?

[Vakanai]

No, he really isn't and shouldn't be. He's never going to grow old, retire permanently, die, etc. Clark Kent is and always be the Superman.

[Superboy-Prime]

No, he really isn't and shouldn't be. He's never going to grow old, retire permanently, die, etc. Clark Kent is and always be the Superman.

Dan DiDio's age can be debated, but I'm pretty sure he's retired. As for Clark Kent, doesn't saying "the" imply he's the singular Superman? We've already got other Supermen.

[Killerbee911]

No, he really isn't and shouldn't be. He's never going to grow old, retire permanently, die, etc. Clark Kent is and always be the Superman.

I am sure someone said that about Alan Scott and Jay Garrick. Let a generation of people get some Jon as Superman in some good stories

Clark has Lois, Jon can date anyone, Clark is reporter, Jon has potential to do a different things maybe something more relevant to the time period, Superman doesn't kill ever, Jon might not follow that rule that strictly. The point is Clark is "The" Superman but he is also locked into a bunch of things and as a storyteller it is kind of limiting. Note I am not saying it is guarantee to happen but there is a world DC could push Jon as "the" Superman and they are reasons, some of which I listed why it could happen.

All popular heroes today are mantles that is just nature of the business. Of course surpassing a major hero is ridiculously hard thing to do something we have only seen Wally West real accomplish imo but do you real doubt DC couldn't pull off the same thing with Jon? Superman dies a well done heroic death save the universe in big story, Jon has to take over mantle and live up to legacy of his father. Obviously they would be people who hate but young fresh face Superman to push in the universe and to grow into legend. Does that sound like something that would end quickly? Wouldn't Superman dying again be huge? Wouldn't a new hero taking over be huge? You couldn't see DC committing to it for long time to prove it is not gimmick?

Yeah Superman(Clark) might come back they always bring them back but under right situation a big hero could sit out for a long chunk of time. Where opinion on who is "the" Superman might change.

[Alpha]

But why call him Superman if his dad is still around and in his prime?

Jon can do all of that while being called something else. Skychamp, Superson, Allstar, Supernaut, or literally anything else.

I don't understand how taking Clark away from earth while he is in his 40s, and making his son become Superman helps either of them. It just creates more fandom conflict and less story conflict since Jon and Clark can't clash against each other's decisions.

[lotchj]

I am sure someone said that about Alan Scott and Jay Garrick. Let a generation of people get some Jon as Superman in some good stories

Clark has Lois, Jon can date anyone, Clark is reporter, Jon has potential to do a different things maybe something more relevant to the time period, Superman doesn't kill ever, Jon might not follow that rule that strictly. The point is Clark is "The" Superman but he is also locked into a bunch of things and as a storyteller it is kind of limiting. Note I am not saying it is guarantee to happen but there is a world DC could push Jon as "the" Superman and they are reasons, some of which I listed why it could happen.

All popular heroes today are mantles that is just nature of the business. Of course surpassing a major hero is ridiculously hard thing to do something we have only seen Wally West real accomplish imo but do you real doubt DC couldn't pull off the same thing with Jon? Superman dies a well done heroic death save the universe in big story, Jon has to take over mantle and live up to legacy of his father. Obviously they would be people who hate but young fresh face Superman to push in the universe and to grow into legend. Does that sound like something that would end quickly? Wouldn't Superman dying again be huge? Wouldn't a new hero taking over be huge? You couldn't see DC committing to it for long time to prove it is not gimmick?

Yeah Superman(Clark) might come back they always bring them back but under right situation a big hero could sit out for a long chunk of time. Where opinion on who is "the" Superman might change.

I hope that doesn't happen!! Keep Clark Kent as superman. All that stuff that could be done with Jon let DC do them, but not with Jon being superman. Give Jon another name. So!! Clark is locked into a bunch of things. Those things Clark are locked into is what make Clark stand above the rest of the heroes.

[manwhohaseverything]

I hope that doesn't happen!! Keep Clark Kent as superman. All that stuff that could be done with Jon let DC do them, but not with Jon being superman. Give Jon another name. So!! Clark is locked into a bunch of things. Those things Clark are locked into is what make Clark stand above the rest of the heroes.

Him standing above people is'nt exactly good thing.Also,you want them to make Jon do everything They can't with superman,without having the name as if it means something.You do realise that Jon could function and do everything Clark can and then some.Be better as a character.Then Clark will be rendered irrelevant much more as superman or whatever they call him.why do you think it's hard to tell superman stories?cause everything superman did,is now being done better by other characters.ww,Xmen, Spiderman,batman,hulk, fantastic 4..etc.Think about it.Clark's only gimmick that is untouched by others is saviour and ”messianic inspiration for mankind” gimmick.forgive me but that gimmick doesn't work.You can say it's morality play and all that but it's run its course. Superman is stuck as an IP without what to do.For example,j Jonah Jameson dwarfs Perry white in public consciousness.These kinda things is why Jon is created.Even then they refuse to do something creative with jon and basically fell to the same trap like in future state.They need to come up with something.An overhaul is only method character will be able to attract people.

[Alpha]

You do realise that Jon could function and do everything Clark can and then some.Be better as a character.Then Clark will be rendered irrelevant much more as superman or whatever they call him.

No, him taking the same name as his father and according to you "being better" is him rendering Clark irrelevant, whereas taking anothee name and Clark still being there means that they both can clash with each other and have a debate, rather than Jon just doing everything Clark used to do.

I agree that Clark should have an impact on the world other than just as a preacher.

[Killerbee911]

I hope that doesn't happen!! Keep Clark Kent as superman. All that stuff that could be done with Jon let DC do them, but not with Jon being superman. Give Jon another name. So!! Clark is locked into a bunch of things. Those things Clark are locked into is what make Clark stand above the rest of the heroes.

I wasn't saying Superman should be replace I was stating a reasons why DC could thing about replacing him and scenario where he is gone for many years. Companies every once in awhile try to shake up a stagnant line or character or new editor wants to make big bold move. It is under something like that where that I am talking about could happen.

Should it happen? I tend to think yes, Most fans would tend to think. No but DC is business of telling stories and they have been telling same types of stories for years. Every character needs a break just for simple fact fans need time forget that they are telling them same stories.

[Alan2099]

Now after Spider-Verse we're living in the world where when you say Spider-Man someone can ask "which one" and they're not the crazy one, but rather you are because you were fool enough not to be more specific. And Marvel's good with playing it as a co lead situation with Miles clearly being groomed to take over...eventually.

If you say Spider-man, everybody is going to think you're talking about Peter. If you want to talk about Miles, you say Miles.

Miles is "that other Spider-man". He's not Spider-man.

It's like how Azreal was AzBats or "the Azreal Batman". He was never the Batman.

[Alpha]

I wasn't saying Superman should be replace I was stating a reasons why DC could thing about replacing him and scenario where he is gone for many years. Companies every once in awhile try to shake up a stagnant line or character or new editor wants to make big bold move. It is under something like that where that I am talking about could happen. And I'm surprised DC looks at these numbers and thinks the answer is to kerp jumping the gun with Jon Kent

Superman Rebirth was selling just as well before Bendis joined in. There was no reason to change things up. like regardless of what fans feel about it, I think this whole thing since Bendis has bewn a bad investment. Even if PKJ's run is good, it won't sell more than Tomasi / Jurgens

[SiegePerilous02]

I am sure someone said that about Alan Scott and Jay Garrick. Let a generation of people get some Jon as Superman in some good stories

Clark has Lois, Jon can date anyone, Clark is reporter, Jon has potential to do a different things maybe something more relevant to the time period, Superman doesn't kill ever, Jon might not follow that rule that strictly. The point is Clark is "The" Superman but he is also locked into a bunch of things and as a storyteller it is kind of limiting. Note I am not saying it is guarantee to happen but there is a world DC could push Jon as "the" Superman and they are reasons, some of which I listed why it could happen.

All popular heroes today are mantles that is just nature of the business. Of course surpassing a major hero is ridiculously hard thing to do something we have only seen Wally West real accomplish imo but do you real doubt DC couldn't pull off the same thing with Jon? Superman dies a well done heroic death save the universe in big story, Jon has to take over mantle and live up to legacy of his father. Obviously they would be people who hate but young fresh face Superman to push in the universe and to grow into legend. Does that sound like something that would end quickly? Wouldn't Superman dying again be huge? Wouldn't a new hero taking over be huge? You couldn't see DC committing to it for long time to prove it is not gimmick?

Yeah Superman(Clark) might come back they always bring them back but under right situation a big hero could sit out for a long chunk of time. Where opinion on who is "the" Superman might change.

I'm pretty sure the people who said that about Alan and Jay are either dead by now or lost interest in comic books when Alan and Jay ceased being published and there was a lull before Barry and Hal were introduced. Superman's never ceased being published that way and made it into a larger mass media presence.

Superman dying again wouldn't be huge. He's already died and come back, why would this be any different? Wally gained traction because Barry's star had faded and they could afford to leave him dead for a couple decades, while his nephew (who looked exactly like him in costume anyway) could carry on. Even that wasn't permanent.

The only limitations they have on Clark are the ones the writers and fanbase put on him. It's difficult to break that when experimenting, but not impossible. If he's gone from 1938 until now as the main guy and everyone and their dog knows he's Clark Kent when they haven't even read comics or consumed any media, we're going to need at least half that length of time to break the idea of there only being one Superman to get some footing.

[manwhohaseverything]

No, him taking the same name as his father and according to you "being better" is him rendering Clark irrelevant, whereas taking anothee name and Clark still being there means that they both can clash with each other and have a debate, rather than Jon just doing everything Clark used to do.

I agree that Clark should have an impact on the world other than just as a preacher.

Yes,that's exactly the point.Having two supermen with two world views.

[Alpha]

Yes,that's exactly the point.Having two supermen with two world views.

But why call him Superman? It only creates more resentment from one side of the fandom. There is no need to alienate people when you can just give him another name.

And it doesn't seem like there will be two Supermen in earth, Jon will be doing whatever he does and Clark will be out there in space, away from every significant relationship he has and taking care of other people while earth is still struggling.