All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tendrin]

One of the reason those Pro-Trump areas were the hardest hit by the plague was BECAUSE they were so Pro-Trump. Not just did they follow his terrible divisive advice, but they regularly attending his rallies putting themselves and others at risk of infection. Remember those rallies, he was holding 4 or 5 a day by the election. We haven't even seen the fallout from that yet, and I doubt they're going to stop going forward.

Areas with the highest covid death tolls actually increased their Trump support. It's a form, IMO, of culpability denial.

[kingaliencracker]

Wait until the final result. We should learn from 2016 and 2000.

Biden actually performed worse than Hillary just so you know. He lost every Democratic. Voter turnout across the board being up due to mail in probably saved him. Hopefully Biden wins, but he won in probably the worst way possible where he's going to be fighting wars every day. His campaign had a horrible strategy and basically lucked out that a pandemic happened.

In fairness to Biden, and I say this as someone who was not enamored with him whatsoever, there wasn't much of a strategy he could convey with the pandemic. Every time Trump had a public rally the media was having a field day railing against him. Biden couldn't do the same thing and look like a hypocrite, so he pretty much ran on the "At least I'm not Trump" ticket and it's probably going to work for him. I can hardly say it was a terrible strategy if it works, and again while I think this is hardly a glowing win for the Democrats they certainly shouldn't lose sleep over it. Biden is the lesser of two evils.

[JCAll]

I think the problem is The Dems were grossly over confident going into last night. Yes they flipped a couple House seats. But the GOP gained 5 seats and The Dems did not gain the number they were expecting. If Biden wins it is not the slam dunk they thought it would be (Yes the popular vote but I am talking the EC because that is what matters). It doesnt look like they will gain the Senate.

They could have done so much better I think but sadly did not. I think they wasted too much money in Ky on the Mitch/Magrath that they had no chance of winning and could have sent that else where.

And you know Trump is worried because the Twitter post a minute king has been very silent the last two days.

I might be thinking of someone else, but I think a lot of that money came from single donors specifically to unseat McConnell.

I was thinking yesterday about the interesting strategy the GOP is using here, having Republicans with high national profiles in safe seats be EXTRA VILE just to draw in more donations in the hopes of unseating them. You can't because the seat is completely safe, but you have to try anyway because they're just so irredeemably bad. Those resources get wasted and can't be used against lower profile Senators in more competitive seats. It works, but it only works if you have absolutely no morals and and fighting people who do.

[The Overlord]

I will also say that I have less sympathy for Bernie's losses because Obama came out of nowhere. Unlike Bernie, Obama didn't have a long career in the House before moving to the Senate. You'd think he'd have a strong enough relationship from caucusing with the Democrats as an Independent to sway the parties mind. Meanwhile Obama swaggers in, ends up going toe to with Clinton, and wins. The "establishment" had little reason to favor him over Clinton.

I think Obama was more charismatic than Sanders and promoted himself as an agent of change, but was very fuzzy on the details and became an agent of the status quo instead. in 2008 was glad Obama beat Hillary because he was not part of a Bush or Clinton political dynasty. Being charismatic doesn't always translate into better leadership.

Hillary also had more control over the party machinery in 2016 than in 2008.

I might be thinking of someone else, but I think a lot of that money came from single donors specifically to unseat McConnell.

I was thinking yesterday about the interesting strategy the GOP is using here, having Republicans with high national profiles in safe seats be EXTRA VILE just to draw in more donations in the hopes of unseating them. You can't because the seat is completely safe, but you have to try anyway because they're just so irredeemably bad. Those resources get wasted and can't be used against lower profile Senators in more competitive seats. It works, but it only works if you have absolutely no morals and and fighting people who do.

You have to stop taking the bait after a while.

[BeastieRunner]

Was the birthday stuff fun?

It always is! Thanks for asking.

Possibly. I hope so. My map always had it blue but the last batch of votes put it in doubt. They were supposed to release new results for it around 9 MST

It just surprised me. Out of the 12% left, it looks like it is largely coming out of the Phoenix and Tucson area.

Sounds like it is safe.

[kingaliencracker]

Areas with the highest covid death tolls actually increased their Trump support. It's a form, IMO, of culpability denial.

I know people who were infected with Covid-19 and were very sick with it who feel it's God's will and if people are meant to die from it so be it, but they were unwavering in their support for Trump or their belief state governments were overreaching with their restrictions. There was also a concern that if Biden won he would enforce restrictions on a national level and have the people dependent on the government for income or bailouts. And of course there are people who are just plain done with worrying about it.

I think this substantially contributed to Biden's loss in Florida. It wasn't the only factor, but I think it was a major one.

[numberthirty]

One tiny one...

Mentioned Oberweis/Underwood earlier.

From the sound of news radio at around eight, it seems like some "Not In Person..." votes are out there.

Fingers crossed. While she isn't actually my Rep, she seems like she is in it for the right reasons.

[kingaliencracker]

I think Obama was more charismatic than Sanders and promoted himself as an agent of change, but was very fuzzy on the details and became an agent of the status quo instead. in 2008 was glad Obama beat Hillary because he was not part of a Bush or Clinton political dynasty. Being charismatic doesn't always translate into better leadership.

Hillary also had more control over the party machinery in 2016 than in 2008.



You have to stop taking the bait after a while.

I think it also needs to be pointed out that Sanders had a heart attack in the middle of the primaries. No one but me has really brought that point up but I think it didn't help the perception that Sanders was a old socialist coot.

[Tendrin]

I know people who were infected with Covid-19 and were very sick with it who feel it's God's will and if people are meant to die from it so be it, but they were unwavering in their support for Trump or their belief state governments were overreaching with their restrictions. There was also a concern that if Biden won he would enforce restrictions on a national level and have the people dependent on the government for income or bailouts. And of course there are people who are just plain done with worrying about it.

I think this substantially contributed to Biden's loss in Florida. It wasn't the only factor, but I think it was a major one.

Nobody will want to admit that their selfishness played a role in getting hundreds of thousands of people killed. They'll try to deny that responsibility for as long as possible. Trump losing will *help* with this, because people will be able to wash their responsibility off onto him. Thatq's just how it goes.

[BeastieRunner]

I know people who were infected with Covid-19 and were very sick with it who feel it's God's will and if people are meant to die from it so be it, but they were unwavering in their support for Trump or their belief state governments were overreaching with their restrictions. There was also a concern that if Biden won he would enforce restrictions on a national level and have the people dependent on the government for income or bailouts. And of course there are people who are just plain done with worrying about it.

I think this substantially contributed to Biden's loss in Florida. It wasn't the only factor, but I think it was a major one.

Perhaps.

The run up to 11/3 had the Biden camp telling the Harris camp last minute they needed help with boots on the ground. They had more than enough money to have a center the whole election cycle down there. That disarray in communication is easier to point to than the other stuff you are stating because it assumes a lot about the electorate when the fact was, Biden / Harris were not on the same page about methods and strategy. Harris was very verbal about that because she has outreach teams exerepeinced in turn out.

[kingaliencracker]

It always is! Thanks for asking.

It just surprised me. Out of the 12% left, it looks like it is largely coming out of the Phoenix and Tucson area.

Sounds like it is safe.

Again, if there were ANY doubt about Arizona Fox News would have immediately taken it off for Biden and put it in play.

Worry about Nevada. That's going to decide the race.

[numberthirty]

I think it also needs to be pointed out that Sanders had a heart attack in the middle of the primaries. No one but me has really brought that point up but I think it didn't help the perception that Sanders was a old socialist coot.

And he still looked more "With It..." than Biden ever did.

Non-Issue.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree fully with this.

Yeah. Remember for the left to succeed in America they need to build a legacy of power. Want to know what that means? They need a candidate who wins the party nomination by popular votes, they need to win the general election by popular vote and EC, and they need to get re-elected and serve two terms. The Left needs that kind of candidate for that kind of platform to really build a real legacy of power in USA. And it can't skip a single step. Missteps are allowed and forgiven before the nomination stage, but after that, fail to deliver and they'll never make you forget it. Barring that, the best they can do is force the Democratic Party to the left on various issues, do really good at State elections in progressive counties. They need big successes on State legislature.

I will also say that I have less sympathy for Bernie's losses because Obama came out of nowhere. Unlike Bernie, Obama didn't have a long career in the House before moving to the Senate. You'd think he'd have a strong enough relationship from caucusing with the Democrats as an Independent to sway the parties mind. Meanwhile Obama swaggers in, ends up going toe to with Clinton, and wins. The "establishment" had little reason to favor him over Clinton.

Bernie being an Independent was an issue because he's campaigning to get their nomination but won't join them. There's also the fact that Sanders leads a small constitutency in Vermont, numerically speaking. Other Dem senators and GOP senators have bigger constitutencies. So it's very hard for Bernie to offer real leverage. What Sanders had was authenticity, optimism, a good sense of humor, and excellent oratory which he built a great personal brand out of.

[numberthirty]

Perhaps.

The run up to 11/3 had the Biden camp telling the Harris camp last minute they needed help with boots on the ground. They had more than enough money to have a center the whole election cycle down there. That disarray in communication is easier to point to than the other stuff you are stating because it assumes a lot about the electorate when the fact was, Biden / Harris were not on the same page about methods and strategy. Harris was very verbal about that because she has outreach teams exerepeinced in turn out.

Couldn't tell by the primary...

[Mister Mets]