The Minority Report! Diversity in the DCU!!

[Marvell2100]

Yeah if I make an overall list it’s 4 DC, 6 Marvel.

1) Black Panther
2) Kyle Rayner
3) Luke Cage
4) Shang Chi
5) Miles Morales
6) Miguel O’Hara
7) John Stewart
8) Cassandra Cain
9) Jaime Reyes
10) Ms Marvel

Next up would be War Machine, Static, Jason Rusch, Arak and Jessica Cruz

I forgot about Miguel.

I think She-Hulk is at 158 issues with another new title launch on the way.

[Samm]

I forgot about Miguel.

I think She-Hulk is at 158 issues with another new title launch on the way.

Yeah she is, I believe Marvels top female in terms of solo issues, though Captain Marvel and Spider-Girl are right behind her. Carol is about to pass her. When it comes to women DC edges Marvel out ( 6 vs 4) (Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Lois Lane and Barbara Gordon vs Patsy Waller, She Hulk, Captain Marvel and Spider Girl). All over 100 issues

[MoneySpider]

I feel like we've been spoiled with the special effects we have gotten for Vixen, in particular. There was not supposed to be an actual visible manifestation of an animal when she used her powers for ages, and an adaptation back in the day could have just had an animal sound effect play as she used cheetah speed or elephant strength or an eagle's flight, to completely eliminate the CGI animal-cartoon-animation. I would have been *totally* fine with that. The CGI we did get was fine, but I actually prefer her being able to covertly use her powers, without a big blue CGI animation lighting up the room and pointing her out to everyone...

And yeah, the others, also shouldn't be that hard. Mr. T's T-spheres just mimic that tiny drone Luke practiced against in the first Star Wars movie, 40-something freaking years ago. Bloodwynd's 'ghosts' could just be normal actors in period costumes that the rest of the actors ignore, like in various ghost movies. Some effects will cost more, like Black Lightning's lightning displays (which, again, they've been doing since Star Wars), or Impala's super-speed, or Amazing Man's many material transformations (that seems to be an expensive one, given how rarely they use Nate's ability on Legends of Tomorrow...).

So many excuses for why movies haven't been made with these characters are just that, excuses.

The main excuse I see is that they need a writer willing to write a screenplay for them *or* an actor looking for a vehicle (as Halle Berry was when Catwoman got pushed, or, far more successfully, as Ryan Reynolds was when Deadpool got 'accidentally' leaked into existence).

We just need a notable actor, like Djimon Hounsoo, to get pushed for a role. (I picked his name out of a hat, because it amuses me that he could be Dr. Mist/Nommo, who takes turns pretending to be other mystical advisors, like the wizard Shazam, or Papa Midnight, as necessary to push heroes towards supernatural threats. Just not even a little bit like Nick Fury.)

With Vixen's physical manifestations of the animals she mimics, I know some readers are sometimes confused as to whether her opponents see the animal manifestations, or if those manifestations are just for the readers so that we know what she is mimicking. The writers/artists never make it clear either way what the deal with that is. Although I do remember in an episode of her web series where she used the shadow of a bear and a guy she was holding up with both arms looked up at the bear shadow in fear as it rose up. I agree that her opponents should not be able to see what she is mimicking, UNLESS she is using it as a diversion/distraction strategy and is showing them a manifestation of one animal to distract them while mimicking a completely different animal to catch them off guard.

[Sutekh]

With Vixen's physical manifestations of the animals she mimics, I know some readers are sometimes confused as to whether her opponents see the animal manifestations, or if those manifestations are just for the readers so that we know what she is mimicking. The writers/artists never make it clear either way what the deal with that is. Although I do remember in an episode of her web series where she used the shadow of a bear and a guy she was holding up with both arms looked up at the bear shadow in fear as it rose up. I agree that her opponents should not be able to see what she is mimicking, UNLESS she is using it as a diversion/distraction strategy and is showing them a manifestation of one animal to distract them while mimicking a completely different animal to catch them off guard.

I feel like it was intended as a special effect purely for artistic representation (like those zip lines indicating movement, or visible thought bubbles that people in the panel can't actually see and read, or the colored energy bubbles surrounding a telekinetic), and not an actual visible manifestation, but, over time, it's been shown on-panel as visible to the onlookers as well, which sort of dragged it into reality. I'm not in love with that inconsistency. Either it's always there, or it's always not. Go or get off the pot, as they say.

It's a neat visual, and I can see the intimidation value of it when she takes on a big tiger or gorilla or rhino aspect and comes at you, but I can also see where it might be cool for her to be able to stealthily use chameleon camouflage or wolf scent-tracking or channel gorilla strength to force a door without a giant animal outline giving away what she's doing.

But, one or the other, IMO. Inconsistency sets off my OCD.

[Hi-Max]

1. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)- 182 issues
2. Green Lantern (John Stewart)- 80 issues
3. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)- 79 issues
4. Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)- 72 issues
5. Static (Virgil Hawkins)- 59 issues
6. Firestorm (Jason Rusch)- 56 issues
7. Arak- 56 issues
8. Green Lantern (Jessica Cruz)- 56 issues
9. Green Lantern (Simon Baz)- 54 issues
10. Steel- 53 issues


In terms of solo success, this is what I got when I added up runs that focused on them. Wonder when DC will give John, Cass, and Jaime more issues so they can get over the century mark? Marvel already has Black Panther, Luke Cage and Shang Chi over that amount, DC only has Kyle. Though DC’s are all legacies while Marvels are originals

I find that how many issues a character has doesn't really matter outside of fruitless penis measuring. Is it an indicator of their success? *shrug* Maybe for some, like Kyle Rayner, but for many (most), there are so many other factors to consider that it's too imprecise a barometer by itself. Like, who were the creators behind the series (was it THEM drawing the readers or the character?), did the series start right at a relaunch, did it get canceled prematurely BECAUSE of a relaunch, what were the expectations of the editors in terms of sales, what was the reception from readers, and so on.

Speaking from craft and narrative terms, I find it's not how many issues a character has that really counts, it's what is done in the issues that counts. For example, Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz may have 50-something issues, but...do they have any really notable storylines that will l be remembered? Do they have any notable enemies that will be remembered? Do they contribute anything truly worthwhile to Green Lantern that the many other characters don't, besides the somewhat superficial stuff like a race and gender? For example, is there something greatly important to the Green Lantern mythology that their characters and stories opened up? I guess...Phantom Lantern? But do we really want to go there?

Or, for that matter, take John Stewart who has 80 issues according to that list. He's had all those issues and near 50 years of being around, yet you can ask all those same questions. Notable runs? Maybe Mosaic, and his brief stint in the 80s GL title. Notable enemies? Well...no. Contribute anything critical to the mythology? Sadly...no.

[kjn]

Speaking from craft and narrative terms, I find it's not how many issues a character has that really counts, it's what is done in the issues that counts.

On one hand, you are absolutely right.

At the same time, sheer quantity has a quality of its own. It's not necessarily a strict indicator of widespread popularity or of artistic quality, but it can be easily measured, and can be used for comparison purposes. Like checking how much editorial patience (for lack of a better word) there is with different characters, or how much sustained interest there has been in them.

Also, artistic quality in mass-media culture is very much a numbers game. Roll the dices enough time, and you get better chances of getting a great story.

[Aahz]

It's not necessarily a strict indicator of widespread popularity or of artistic quality, but it can be easily measured, and can be used for comparison purposes.

But you also have too look how there umbers are reached. Getting that many issues in one long lasting run is pretty different then just, getting there with multiple series over several decades that all only lasted for a year.

John Stewart might for example be Nr. 2 on this list but if you look at what the longest runs of consecutive issues for these characters are he would very likely be much lower.

Btw. if you really count Kyle Rayner as minority, you have probably also to count Catwoman, Nightwing, and some other characters that are in a similar Gray Area when it comes to being a minority character.

[Will Evans]

But you also have too look how there umbers are reached. Getting that many issues in one long lasting run is pretty different then just, getting there with multiple series over several decades that all only lasted for a year.

John Stewart might for example be Nr. 2 on this list but if you look at what the longest runs of consecutive issues for these characters are he would very likely be much lower.

Btw. if you really count Kyle Rayner as minority, you have probably also to count Catwoman, Nightwing, and some other characters that are in a similar Gray Area when it comes to being a minority character.

I used to always count Selina because she’s half Cuban on her mom’s side

[Aahz]

I used to always count Selina because she’s half Cuban on her mom’s side

At least I find it questionable to include her or Kyle in a list of most issues published for a minority character, when them beeing a minority was a retcon made years after they were introduced and after good chunk of these issues were published.

[skyvolt2000]

I find that how many issues a character has doesn't really matter outside of fruitless penis measuring. Is it an indicator of their success?

We are NOT going to play they have to do something significant game. That is gatekeeping 101.

Remember you are at the mercy of agenda driven writers and ESPECIALLY editors.

And if we are going to play that game....

What significant thing or MAJOR contributions to DC have the following WHITE guys done in their solo issues?

Blue Devil
Ted Kord
Booster Gold
Peacemaker
Guy Gardner
Nightwing
Jason Todd
Jean Paul Valley
Shazam
Cap Atom
Question
Adam Strange
Warlord
Conner Kent
Impulse
Tim Drake

What was that ground breaking arc??? Anybody? Bueller?? Bueller?

Thought so....

Because WHO gets to say what is significant or not?

[Hi-Max]

We are NOT going to play they have to do something significant game. That is gatekeeping 101.

Remember you are at the mercy of agenda driven writers and ESPECIALLY editors.

And if we are going to play that game....

What significant thing or MAJOR contributions to DC have the following WHITE guys done in their solo issues?

Blue Devil
Ted Kord
Booster Gold
Peacemaker
Guy Gardner
Nightwing
Jason Todd
Jean Paul Valley
Shazam
Cap Atom
Question
Adam Strange
Warlord
Conner Kent
Impulse
Tim Drake

What was that ground breaking arc??? Anybody? Bueller?? Bueller?

Thought so....

Because WHO gets to say what is significant or not?

Generally, consensus says what is significant and what is not.

But anyway, what do white characters have anything to do with anything that I said? There are tons of white characters that don't play significant roles in comics, or have significant runs. I never said otherwise.

[Pitchblack34]

Dc has terrible LGBT representation, the most they give us is bi women who they refuse to show on screen as anything other than straight. Imo Marvel is way better when it comes to diversity, I mean dc has been pushing two relatively new characters down our throats and they’re both straight white men, as if they don’t have enough of those.

[Robotman]

1. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)- 182 issues
2. Green Lantern (John Stewart)- 80 issues
3. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)- 79 issues
4. Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)- 72 issues
5. Static (Virgil Hawkins)- 59 issues
6. Firestorm (Jason Rusch)- 56 issues
7. Arak- 56 issues
8. Green Lantern (Jessica Cruz)- 56 issues
9. Green Lantern (Simon Baz)- 54 issues
10. Steel- 53 issues


In terms of solo success, this is what I got when I added up runs that focused on them. Wonder when DC will give John, Cass, and Jaime more issues so they can get over the century mark? Marvel already has Black Panther, Luke Cage and Shang Chi over that amount, DC only has Kyle. Though DC’s are all legacies while Marvels are originals

We’re probably not going to see characters like Jaime or even Kyle Rayner for a long time because DC generally only allows one Hispanic character at a time to be featured in their main group of heroes. Jessica Cruz will continue to float in the background and fill their quota.

[Aahz]

I mean dc has been pushing two relatively new characters down our throats and they’re both straight white men, as if they don’t have enough of those.

Which character do you mean? Appart from Jon Kent Ican really think of any male white character, who was created in the last 10 years and used in any significant capacity.

[kurenai24]

Dc has terrible LGBT representation, the most they give us is bi women who they refuse to show on screen as anything other than straight. Imo Marvel is way better when it comes to diversity, I mean dc has been pushing two relatively new characters down our throats and they’re both straight white men, as if they don’t have enough of those.

I wouldn't even count them b/c until it's shown through text/the screen or is stated from the character's mouths themselves ...it doesn't count.

It's like when Bruce Timm or whoever waited this long to state that the Harley and Poison Ivy relationship in BTAS being read as romantic was intentional or whatever and it's like ...are you just saying that b/c a cult fandom interpreted the relationship that way or are you being genuine.

I'm not sure who made Catwoman bisexual, but if you can't explore something to the fullest and make it a significant thing, why make it happen at all ...now it's like certain people were baited with no payoff.

Same with Wonder Woman, while I get the logic behind making Wonder Woman bisexual what with Wonder Woman being on an island full of women and not once ever being in a romantically linked relationship, nothing is being done or shown.

So as far as I'm concerned DC only has one bisexual female character in Harley, two if I count Jo Mullein who's in an imprint.