Pitch a Direction: Nightwing

[Badou]

The only time Dick and Wonder Woman have spoken since the New 52 was in the current Titans book when she was there with Batman and Superman about asking him to fold the Titans into the JL and Dick was being pissy about it. I think that is the only time they have spoken. The only Green Lantern Dick has interacted with since the New 52 was Baz in that Grayson annual too I believe.

I think the idea of Dick having these deep connections or is the "heart" of the DCU are some of the biggest falsehoods in his fandom at the moment. They no longer exist and have't for a long time. It is a big reason why I'd like a solo book that puts him back into the DCU where he can't be isolated and can build up those relationships again. I've sort of become completely disenfranchised with that ever happening in a team book and I think his solo book will be the only place to really do it any justice.

[WonderNight]

Exactly dick is irrelevant outside of batman its no wonder dc still looks at him as a sidekick. We need a nightwing team up book.

[oasis1313]

Exactly dick is irrelevant outside of batman its no wonder dc still looks at him as a sidekick. We need a nightwing team up book.

World's Finest Comics. Nightwing teaming up with different superheroes.

[Aahz]

The only time Dick and Wonder Woman have spoken since the New 52 was in the current Titans book when she was there with Batman and Superman about asking him to fold the Titans into the JL and Dick was being pissy about it. I think that is the only time they have spoken. The only Green Lantern Dick has interacted with since the New 52 was Baz in that Grayson annual too I believe.

It is not like they had much more interactions pre flashpoint.

I think the idea of Dick having these deep connections or is the "heart" of the DCU are some of the biggest falsehoods in his fandom at the moment. They no longer exist and have't for a long time. It is a big reason why I'd like a solo book that puts him back into the DCU where he can't be isolated and can build up those relationships again. I've sort of become completely disenfranchised with that ever happening in a team book and I think his solo book will be the only place to really do it any justice.

He didn't really had many "deep connections" outside of the Titans and the Batfamily imo. And even in those two groups there were a lot characters he wasn't that close with, and characters that were better connected than him.

[Godlike13]

DC are the ones who purposely position him irrelevant outside of Batman.

[oasis1313]

DC are the ones who purposely position him irrelevant outside of Batman.

And they've worked HARD at it, too.

[byrd156]

DC are the ones who purposely position him irrelevant outside of Batman.

Any of these ideas or past ideas can work, even the uninspired ideas. It's the constant interference and favoritism that DC does that's the problem. It's so frustrating and annoying.

[byrd156]

The only time Dick and Wonder Woman have spoken since the New 52 was in the current Titans book when she was there with Batman and Superman about asking him to fold the Titans into the JL and Dick was being pissy about it. I think that is the only time they have spoken. The only Green Lantern Dick has interacted with since the New 52 was Baz in that Grayson annual too I believe.

I think the idea of Dick having these deep connections or is the "heart" of the DCU are some of the biggest falsehoods in his fandom at the moment. They no longer exist and have't for a long time. It is a big reason why I'd like a solo book that puts him back into the DCU where he can't be isolated and can build up those relationships again. I've sort of become completely disenfranchised with that ever happening in a team book and I think his solo book will be the only place to really do it any justice.

It's not really a falsehood, it's just holding onto pre-New 52 continuity and making headcanon.

[Aahz]

It's not really a falsehood, it's just holding onto pre-New 52 continuity and making headcanon.

Like I said, even pre-New 52 he wasn't really more connected than he is in Rebirth.

[byrd156]

Like I said, even pre-New 52 he wasn't really more connected than he is in Rebirth.

Pre-New52 he was leading the JL and was Batman teaming up with other heroes what are you talking about?

[Aahz]

Pre-New52 he was leading the JL and was Batman teaming up with other heroes what are you talking about?

I was Talking about how he was written for the main part of the continuity and not just the very end.
And even in his time as Batman he didn't had many team ups with other heroes I can remember, and his Incarnation of the Justice League was also not that impressive, I meant it was basically just him, Donna, Congorilla, Starman, Supergirl and Jade (I mean seriously and guys are complaining about him being only on Titans).

[Badou]

He didn't really had many "deep connections" outside of the Titans and the Batfamily imo. And even in those two groups there were a lot characters he wasn't that close with, and characters that were better connected than him.

That isn't really true. Each reboot his connections become less and less to be honest. He had connections in the Titans, JL, JSA, Superman, Outsiders, and far deeper connections within the Batman franchise itself. Only Batman and Superman could have claimed more. So no idea where you got the idea he wasn't that close with them.

It didn't help they stripped him of his connections and history to flesh out characters like Jason in the New 52, but Dick hasn't really gotten anything back to help offset that since Rebirth.

[Aahz]

That isn't really true. Each reboot his connections become less and less to be honest. He had connections in the Titans, JL, JSA, Superman, Outsiders, and far deeper connections within the Batman franchise itself. Only Batman and Superman could have claimed more. So no idea where you got the idea he wasn't that close with them.

They have partly become less since these characters were erased, but like I said I don't think that he really had that many deep connections like it is allways claimed (at least not more than DCs other A- and B-List characters).

In the Batfamily he didn't really had any particularly deep connections with Cass or Steph, which makes him imo less connected that Tim and Barbara.

In Titans he has imo deep connections with Donna, Wally, Roy, Kori and maybe Garth, but not to any of the newer members

When he was in the Outsiders he was actively avoiding to be close to his team mates (and a lot of these characters were anyway only members during that run)

I also don't think that he had much more frequent interactions with Superman pre Flashpoint than now.

And his connectionswithin the JLA and JSA were imo mostly those with other Titans and Batfamily members.

[nhienphan2808]

Dick has never had more connections than Bruce or others. He just has better social skills and grace than them, is the better leader. In fact he had those connections thanks to being with Bruce. Even the Silver Age TT is due to them being sidekicks. And for all the fun Pre crisis adventures with the JL, that's also Bruce's blessings. The Spy thing was also from Bruce. The NTT is the only team that's "his" That's why it's silly to complain "why must everything Dick achieve go back to Bruce" or "The outsiders don't count bc they are Bruce's" I am as angry as the next fan that Dick never keep anything to himself and always lose attributes to others but to say he's spread his wings farther than Bruce is a stretch. Even Dick knows that everything he has is thanks to Bruce. Even in Infinite Crisis, i don't think Nightwing dying himself would impact others much as in HIS connections to them tbh. He never can die, because it would impact Batman the most, who impacted the DCU.

Again we don't even need him doing things that's "more" than Bruce or divorce him from the family. All he needs is not be fodder and props, which he is now even to other Robins.

[Badou]

They have partly become less since these characters were erased, but like I said I don't think that he really had so many deep connections like it is allways claimed.

In the Batfamily he didn't really had any particularly deep connections with Cass or Steph, which makes him imo less connected that Tim and Barbara.

In Titans he has imo deep connections with Donna, Wally, Roy, Kori and maybe Garth, but not to any of the newer members

When he was in the Outsiders he was actively avoiding to be close to his team mates (and a lot of these characters were anyway only members during that run)

I also don't think that he had much more frequent interactions with Superman pre Flashpoint than now.

And his connectionswithin the JLA and JSA were imo mostly those with other Titans and Batfamily members.

It isn't just post Crisis you have to include when talking about him but also pre crisis and his whole history. I think it all counts. Take the Superman connections for example. Obviously he used to be close with Superman, but each reboot that gets less and less. He used to be close with Supergirl too post crisis, but in the New 52 they have no relationship at all and haven't even interacted. Pre Crisis he used to be close with Jimmy Olsen, but that has been completely erased and I don't even remember the last time they interacted.

It all sort of compounds. Like the Batman connections. Dick predates most of not all of Batman's main rogues and was there for their introduction for example. In subsequent reboots they all or most now come before Dick in continuity and him being there for their introduction is gone. His relationships with characters like Tim are nothing what they were (you can say it was given to Jason I guess) and I don't think he and Tim have had one conversation between the two of them since the reboot. He has no relationships with characters like Bette Kane anymore either.

It is the same with the other franchises if you want to pick each apart. Of course a big reason for his connections was that he was around or close with DC's younger heroes and when they grew up and spread out through the DCU that gave him more connections across different teams and franchises. Characters like Wonder Woman or a Hal Jordan don't really have this because they are kind of fixed in their position. Of course all this has been undercut by DC wanting to move away from younger heroes of this gen and Dick has had no new connections to replace them.

When you take it all into account I think only Batman and Superman have more connections, but that makes sense given Batman, Superman and Dick are the 3 most published characters in the DCU. So of course they would have more connections than anyone, but Dick's suffer because he is from a generation that DC wants to move away from and they don't really want to build new connections for him. Though this is getting off topic so I'm going to leave it here.