Spider-Man II Ending (Major Spoilers)

[Smoov-E]

It probably depends on what Marvel wants to do with the Universe now, if they intend to do anything at all.

I think something with Ultimate Peter would probably gain some momentum, especially if Marvel wants to have a younger Peter Parker in focus, but maybe not be as successful without Bendis.

Considering most rejected the last try at teen Peter stories they’re probably not going back to that well so soon since there is also RYV for Peter/MJ shenanigans( which should be printing money going by how many online scream that’s what they want )

[Frontier]

Considering most rejected the last try at teen Peter stories they’re probably not going back to that well so soon since there is also RYV for Peter/MJ shenanigans( which should be printing money going by how many online scream that’s what they want )

Nobody seemed sure exactly what Spidey was supposed to be (in-continuity? Marvel Adventures? Movie tie-in?), which I think hurt it, and I definitely don't think they went full-court press promotion-wise for it like they probably would for something with Ultimate Peter.

RYV has a married and adult Peter Parker, which isn't the kind of audience I think Marvel would be going for with another AU Peter (or 616 Peter for that matter).

[JKtheMac]

If Marvel is done with Ultimate for the near future, I don't see how it'll mess up their plans to have it being established to have survived and be doing it's own thing "off screen."

On the other hand, I suspect that whether it is the Ultimate universe (or a divergent timeline/parallel universe of the Ultimate universe or whatever) will be up to the Marvel brass and writers. However, at the moment, there's no reason to discount the authorial intent, IMHO.

It would directly contradict the in continuity fact that the current MU is a combination of the remains of the 616 and the 1610 for a start.

[WebLurker]

It would directly contradict the in continuity fact that the current MU is a combination of the remains of the 616 and the 1610 for a start.

When was that said?

[JKtheMac]

Well this is the crux of the issue. Interviews with creators demonstrate the original intent of Secret Wars was to fold the 616 with the 1610. We have a situation where editorial see the universes as merged and many stories have been spun out of that concept, but nobody has actually confirmed it directly within continuity. Many things now hang upon that premise.

This merger is why in Hickman’s Avengers reality came down to those two universes, and why their collision ended the multiverse. The idea was that by smashing them together at the end of the multiverse they were irrecoverably mixed and merged when Reed created the Prime Universe. Multiple characters from the 1610 have ended up in the 616 as have ideas and constructs like for example The Ultimates and The Triskelion.

As a side point, this is also why the dispute with the Spider office ensued when they persisted with the 616 moniker and the even more clumsy and equally wrong "Universe formally known as 616." (Even if that was quite a funny come-back.)

The moving across of Miles and establishing him in the new MU was one of the benefits of this merger, and was supposed to have been reflected in Manhattan on Battleworld. BUT Bendis confused continuity in Battleworld Manhattan, having some characters there that couldn't be there because they were on the raft, such that the official line is now that this ream was composed of worlds similar to the 616 and the 1610 and not the realms themselves. Which is frankly a mess. But that story reflected the issues that were supposed to be being explored, that the 616 and the 1610 were competing and ultimately similar worlds that were becoming mixed and confused.

However Bendis continuity problems aside, the conceit of Ewing’s The Ultimates was that The Maker has been deprived of his native universe and decides to merge all of the universes into a truly 'ultimate universe'. It is a mad-scientist extrapolation of what Reed did with the 616 and the 1610 to create what Maker calls The Prime Universe.

By the end Ewing is commenting upon and questioning the way the two story universes were effectively rewritten. You can see it in The Maker's dialogue in Ultimates 2 #9, where he talks about being able to 'rewrite every story' and when he talks to his 1610 alike Ultimates and asks "Is our shared universe cool or uncool?" Later, in the next issue he comments on editorial control when he talks about writing 1610 alike Cap out of reality again. Indeed Ewing's perspective is summed up by Galactus in Ultimates 2 #100 "And so the dance between change and illusion will go on". The notion that continuity is a game of change and illusion of change is a commentary on comics in general and Secret Wars in particular.

The most telling interview with current creators was the Soule interview on Word Balloon, where he discussed the implications of merging the two universes. He posited a story he was considering where some of the inhabitants of New York would begin to have memories of a different life with a different job or partner, thereby revealing the cracks in the reality merge. Notably this story has never surfaced (to my knowledge) which may just be because Soule has been rather busy recently, but it is possible that the editors either want to keep the merging veiled so as not to confuse or antagonise the fans, or it could be that the editors are keeping their options open for some kind of re-emergence of the 1610.

This could even be part of Ewing’s commentary because in the teasers of Ultimates 2 #1 it seemed he was aiming at a more full explanation of the fate of 1610 and possibly a plot to bring it back, but may have been overruled to the point he rewrote his story. We never actually got the panel with Maker holding a representation of his Ultimate Universe as portrayed in the teaser, and instead got a far grander Ultimate Universe. Now this is pure speculation but it does seem odd and would explain some of Ewing’s meta-commentary.