"Darkseid...always hated music..."
Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."
I mean, when you think about it, he basically still was in the movie. Especially when he screwed over Darkseid so he could get a chance to kill Superman.
Whenever they made major alterations to the original story I think they do it with the sense of making it something that makes the narrative more cohesive or sensible (to a point). I mean, the mystery of who Hush is is almost universally seen as the weakest element of the Hush story.
I mean, I know its not a 1:1 retelling. However, in older adaptations from before the recent string of New 52-esque movies, they were able to maintain pretty faithful adaptations while still changing enough to make it a new experience. Take Under the Red Hood as an example.
Just watched it myself.
Positives:
-The romance is believable
-Dick is a welcome presence
-Superman's part was cool and the villains, apart from Bane, are well-designed and written
Cons:
-The dialogue was really trite and at times cringey, like a 14 year old trying too hard to be edgy. A lot of the "asshole" swearing and nearly-dropped f bombs by Ivy felt extremely forced.
-Thomas Elliot is completely wasted in the film. Very strange decision to include him as a token character with no real development. His inclusion in the story could have been meaningful but different; instead it had almost no impact on the story.
-There was a strange lack of urgency right after Hush declares he's after Batman's closest people. He and Selina decide to work together, but that somehow means the danger has passed? They don't seem concerned at all.
spoilers:end of spoilers
-As was mentioned, the riddler wasn't developed at all. The reveal had no impact. It was just...oh okay, he's the one who did it. It would have been cool to incorporate Elliot more; I half-expected Riddler to, instead of being clayface, reveal that he wasn't the only one to took a dip into the pit. Would have made even more sense for his motivation than the original comic book version.
-The ending reason for their splitting doesn't make much sense. She wants Batman to be okay with killing villains? Or is it his compulsion to be Batman? It's not clear at all and poorly executed.
I was never a huge fan of the actual Hush comic so my expectations were low. All in all it was okay viewing, but I don't feel a need to watch it again.
I thought the near f-bombs by Ivy were actually kind of funny. And then she drops an s-bomb .
But maybe that's just because I've seen other productions that swear even more then this movie does...
Tommy was there to be a red herring, emphasize that Bruce has been ignoring people who care about him, and get Batman emotionally invested in stopping Hush.-Thomas Elliot is completely wasted in the film. Very strange decision to include him as a token character with no real development. His inclusion in the story could have been meaningful but different; instead it had almost no impact on the story.
You can say the emotional impact wasn't felt by the audience as well as it could have been, but I think one of the flaws of the movie is relying on the audience being as emotionally invested in things as the characters are, on-top of fan preconceptions about the characters.
I think the idea was that Batman and Catwoman working together and being together led to a period of "marital bliss," enough to where Selina was planning for a vacation while Bruce was still focused on catching Hush.-There was a strange lack of urgency right after Hush declares he's after Batman's closest people. He and Selina decide to work together, but that somehow means the danger has passed? They don't seem concerned at all.
spoilers:spoilers:end of spoilers
-As was mentioned, the riddler wasn't developed at all. The reveal had no impact. It was just...oh okay, he's the one who did it. It would have been cool to incorporate Elliot more; I half-expected Riddler to, instead of being clayface, reveal that he wasn't the only one to took a dip into the pit. Would have made even more sense for his motivation than the original comic book version. end of spoilers
Riddler was developed, it's just because he hadn't been established beforehand, it was hard to really get as invested into it (again, relying on audience preconceptions).
I loved the Clayface reveal though.
My takeaway was the compulsion to be Batman. Selina felt that she was trying to change herself to where she and Bruce could be together and settle down but she realized that Bruce couldn't change who he is and really stop being Batman, to the point where he would risk his own life for someone like Hush and then actually feel bad about the fact that she let him die.-The ending reason for their splitting doesn't make much sense. She wants Batman to be okay with killing villains? Or is it his compulsion to be Batman? It's not clear at all and poorly executed.
I can see where you're coming from. I think they just want to keep the endings for some mystery stories somewhat fresh, so that comic readers will still buy the movie. It's been ages since I read Gotham by Gaslight, but I think they changed the identity of the killer in that one, too.
Makes me wonder how they would tackle The Long Halloween, if they ever did that one. I'm sure an animated adaptation would give a definitive ID on the Holiday Killer, even though there isn't one.
Last edited by Clark_Kent; 08-29-2019 at 03:20 PM.
"Darkseid...always hated music..."
Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."
Thrones of Atlantis, Judas Contract, Death/Reign...I'd say they've still maintained that to some degree.
They did. I think they reduced the killer from the comic to a cameo.
They are doing Long Halloween. I wouldn't be surprised if it's announced for the 2021 slate.Makes me wonder how they would tackle The Long Halloween, if they ever did that one. I'm sure an animated adaptation would give a definitive ID on the Holiday Killer, even though there isn't one.
I don't think they'll mess with the Holiday Killer's identity if only because the focus eventually shifts towards Two-Face, who was I guess one major character from Hush who kind of got shafted here, but it didn't bother me.
"Darkseid...always hated music..."
Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."
It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?
Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
-Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)
Finally having watched this I have to say that I loved it and really liked the variations that they made. The batman / catwoman relationship was the absolute highlight of the film and the scenes with her trying to fit in with the batfamily were great. Really loved the use of Nightwing, I always appreciate when they have grayson come in as a friend/ little brother role who respects Bruce but is one of the only people comfortable enough to speak his mind and joke with bruce, especially after the angsty "f&^# batman" attitude they had grayson have in titans.
The twist at the end really worked in my opinion, I hate when they just word for word adapt the comic, no movies is going to fully live up to the comic in terms of story because it is condensed to 90 mins where as comics can go on over months. They could have just kept it the same but I liked that I went in fully expecting to know everything about the story and got surprised instead.
Voice acting was great O'mara has really come into his own as Batman and while he isn't Conroy, he is clearly the second best to voice batman in my opinion. Jennifer Morrison was great as catwoman as well.
Overall this was a really pleasant surprise especially as a comic fan because I got kinda surprised by the story and I don't remember the last time that happened with a DC animated film.
"You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged"- CAPT. Picard
There was a leaked cast list. It's not going to be in-continuity.
Troy Baker and Jensen Ackles are in it (presumably as Batman and Harvey/Two-Face).
Realistically they'll probably just have Steven Choi do it (he did the designs for Gotham by Gaslight).
Thank god that's a relief. Troy Baker's a good Batman, and it's great to have Jensen Ackles in one of these again, though I suspect it'll be hard for me to hear him as anyone besides Jason.
Gotham by Gaslight was well animated, and a great movie, but something about the Batman design always threw me off. Bruce was fine, but once the cowl went on it was so, how to say it, big honking chin-y.
Hope they stick closer to the source material this time than they did for Hush or Gotham by Gaslight. The Long Halloween is one of the few that really, really, really, really deserves the super ultra faithful treatment like Year One and Dark Knight Returns got.
I'm interested to see what Ackles sounds like as Dent and Two-Face. It's a fair contrast from Dean or even Jason.
I don't see them changing as much as they did for Hush or Gotham by Gaslight. They're also making it a two-parter so I think they'll try and adapt it as faithfully as possible.
And the Long Halloween mystery isn't as much of an issue as the mysteries in the other stories were,e in my opinion.
I don't know, I don't really think of Ackles as a guy with a lot of impressions or range voice work wise. I imagine his Harvey will sound much like his Dean and Jason. But who knows, maybe he'll surprise me and do something really new with his voice. Either way I still like the actor so it'll be okay.
I imagine Baker's voice will be closer to his Batman vs TMNT rendition vs his LEGO Batman stuff (at least I think his two versions of Batman sounded different).
Hope you're right, because Long Halloween is such a huge favorite of mine, and is such a classic. And like you said, the mystery aspect isn't quite as important, knowing who the killer is spoils nothing, because the real story is the Two Face origin, and the shift from mobsters to freaks kind of I think. It being a two parter like TDKR gives me some hope on that front.