Game of Thrones

[Theleviathan]

By and large I think D&D should get praised for bringing this show to air and creating a brilliant fantasy show that has become a TV juggernaut.

But I'd really like ot know what pressure caused them to rush things. Last season needed three more episodes centered on Dany and Jon and less ranging into the nothingness. This season should've been 95% Winterfell and the Night King with Cersei plotting as a filler. Then another season focused on Cersei. Meanwhile Dany's transformation from heroine to mad queen gets the legwork it really needs to be viable.

Pressing what should have been 30 episodes into 13? Woof. It's becoming a major issue with pacing and plotting and I fear it's only going to get worse.

So why the rush? Were they ready to move on? The actors and actresses were harder to get contracted? Not enough money?

[XPac]

So Jon says goodbye to Sam and Tormen, gives ghost away, has a heart to heart with the remaining Starks, tells Sansa and Arya his secret, separates himself from Dany, and Sansa explicitly states Starks don't do well in the south.

Does anyone think Jon won't die?

Seems like they crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's.

They should have added that he is a few days away from retirement and that he's getting too old for this.

If Dany is doing a heel turn though, I almost think Jon has to survive. Anyone but him or Dany sitting on the Iron Throne in the end would almost seem random. No one else is built up properly to justify it IMO.

[MindofShadow]

So why the rush? Were they ready to move on? The actors and actresses were harder to get contracted? Not enough money?

Actors get sick of doing the same thing after awhile. Expecially huge projects that prevent other projects.

Ditto with directors. DD have star wars stuff coming out sooner or later for instance.

It is obvious it isn't purely HBO's doing. Considering they have prequels in various stages right now.

If Dany is doing a heel turn though, I almost think Jon has to survive. Anyone but him or Dany sitting on the Iron Throne in the end would almost seem random. No one else is built up properly to justify it IMO.

Sansa has to an extent recently.

Which is groan inducing lol

[Jim Kelly]

Sansa was an idiot. She did stuff that got people killed. Sure she ended up also suffering herself because of her stupid mistakes in judgement, but she kept ending up with the worst people. Even her last minute arrival at the Battle of the Bastards couldn't have happened without Little Finger. Her finally being clever in the last two seasons is mainly just displaying common sense in contrast to the sheer stupidity of others. Wow, she knows that you have to have enough food to get through a long winter--that's not clever, that's basic math. If Sansa is the cleverest person Arya knows, she mustn't know many people (and she's selling herself short).

[Cyke]

Anyone else change their mind on Cleganebowl?

I'm team "let Greyworm F the mountain up" now

I'd be totally okay if Clegane Bowl was the Hound and Grey Worm vs. The Mountain. **** fair play, his necromantic nature is a big gigantic extra life cheat all on its own.

[XPac]

Actors get sick of doing the same thing after awhile. Expecially huge projects that prevent other projects.

Ditto with directors. DD have star wars stuff coming out sooner or later for instance.

It is obvious it isn't purely HBO's doing. Considering they have prequels in various stages right now.



Sansa has to an extent recently.

Which is groan inducing lol

I would have trouble buying Sansa on the Iron Throne though. She would have to either marry into it or take it by force, as she has no legitimate claim to it at this point. Queen of the North sure... but despite the push Sansa is getting from the show even her being on the Iron Throne in the end I think would feel really forced.

[AndrewCrossett]

Plus we could have seen the skills she developed instead of a lunge from no where knife flip ****

That was one of the skills she developed. She *snuck up* on probably the most powerful evil being on the planet, with a bunch of his lieutenants looking on, and shivved him like a punk. Her other skills, like face stealing, wouldn't have worked. Anything with a face she could steal would be someone the NK knows shouldn't be there.

She *will* use those skills for her upcoming kill(s), though. It's too cool a power to just use on a mook like Walder Frey.

Jamie killing Cersei seems jus tlike Jon killing NK... too obvious for a show that is "subverting expectations lolzulzsszzzz"

You can't subvert *every* expectation, or you come around to being predictable again.

Why would Arya even care about Euron?

Because he and his fleet are probably Cersei's biggest asset. If she can't kill Cersei herself, she can at least knock away her supports so somebody else can kill her more easily. Not every kill has to be poetic justice IMO, and Arya wasn't even the one who killed most of the people on her list.

[Havok83]

I would have trouble buying Sansa on the Iron Throne though. She would have to either marry into it or take it by force, as she has no legitimate claim to it at this point. Queen of the North sure... but despite the push Sansa is getting from the show even her being on the Iron Throne in the end I think would feel really forced.

There arent many people on the show with a legitmate claim. Cersei is currently on the throne but if she is defeated, that leaves Jon and Dany. Jon doesnt want it which leaves Dany. The North dont support her and with most of her army decimate (or at least will be by the end of this next battle), she doesnt really have the troops to usurp power. Her using her last dragon to reign fire on everyone in order to make them bend the knee to her screams of Mad Queen which will ultimamtely be her downfall. Power will be up for grabs and I think we'll get a democratic approach (among the few remaining houses) to put the next monarch in power. Sansa stands a decent chance wer the show to go this route

[AndrewCrossett]

Gendry is in a weird place. He is now the rightful Baratheon king, IF you consider the Baratheons the lawful rulers. But in order to consider Gendry legitimate, and therefore eligible for the throne, you have to accept Daenerys as the rightful queen.

I still think he'll wind up on the throne as the last person standing in any of the lines of succession.

[XPac]

There arent many people on the show with a legitmate claim. Cersei is currently on the throne but if she is defeated, that leaves Jon and Dany. Jon doesnt want it which leaves Dany. The North dont support her and with most of her army decimate (or at least will be by the end of this next battle), she doesnt really have the troops to usurp power. Her using her last dragon to reign fire on everyone in order to make them bend the knee to her screams of Mad Queen which will ultimamtely be her downfall. Power will be up for grabs and I think we'll get a democratic approach (among the few remaining houses) to put the next monarch in power. Sansa stands a decent chance wer the show to go this route

That's why I'm saying I'm not sure I would buy anyone but Jon and Dany. Anyone else would feel random.

I don't think Jon not wanting the throne will necessarily preclude him from getting it. I don't think he necessarily wanted to be Night Commander or King of the North either. I think Varys sort of hit the nail on the head here... sometimes the best rulers are the ones who don't necessarily want to be rulers.

[XPac]

That was one of the skills she developed. She *snuck up* on probably the most powerful evil being on the planet, with a bunch of his lieutenants looking on, and shivved him like a punk. Her other skills, like face stealing, wouldn't have worked. Anything with a face she could steal would be someone the NK knows shouldn't be there.

She *will* use those skills for her upcoming kill(s), though. It's too cool a power to just use on a mook like Walder Frey.



You can't subvert *every* expectation, or you come around to being predictable again.



Because he and his fleet are probably Cersei's biggest asset. If she can't kill Cersei herself, she can at least knock away her supports so somebody else can kill her more easily. Not every kill has to be poetic justice IMO, and Arya wasn't even the one who killed most of the people on her list.

Yeah, I mentioned this earlier but EUrons fleet is basically what can keep Cersi in the game. If they can negate that and cut them off from supplies, they don't even have to beat the Golden Company. They can just starve them out. Not that I think Dany would actually do this... but she could. Euron is probably Cersi's only real ace in the whole at this point. Taking him off the board is a huge boost.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I think Sansa herself in her conversation with the Hound was basically making the point that she became a stronger person because of everything she went through, when the Hound told her a lot of bad stuff could have been avoided if she had left with him. So I would agree it's not JUST the rape which changed Sansa. That seemed to be a point they were alluding to earlier.

It still rubbed alot of female viewers the wrong way. Added to the fact they think GoT just fridged it's sole black female character, and turned Brienne into a blubbering mess over Jamie, and made Dani into a cliched trope about mad queens. I'm not saying I agree with the criticisms, but the optics don't look good.

[XPac]

It still rubbed alot of female viewers the wrong way. Added to the fact they think GoT just fridged it's sole black female character, and turned Brienne into a blubbering mess over Jamie, and made Dani into a cliched trope about mad queens. I'm not saying I agree with the criticisms, but the optics don't look good.

Optics arguably aren't a whole lot better for a lot of the male characters at this point. I think plain an simple, this show makes a lot of characters look bad gender be damned.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Optics arguably aren't a whole lot better for a lot of the male characters at this point. I think plain an simple, this show makes a lot of characters look bad gender be damned.

It's not just that though, they blame all of this on the lack of female writers and directors behind the scenes.

[MindofShadow]

Optics arguably aren't a whole lot better for a lot of the male characters at this point. I think plain an simple, this show makes a lot of characters look bad gender be damned.

Yeah this is ridiculous. 99% of the characters are very flawed or been killed to advance the plot/give a character motivation.

Just because she and greyworm were basically the only black people in the show doesn't mean they should have death immunity.