Batwoman (2019)

[sorboares]

Starting?

So, they were just going to recast- which, sure, would upset some of the audience. But the lead was leaving, and what can you do? She'd need some time under the cowl to establish the new Kate, and they could build from there.

But instead, they decide to create a whole new character, kill off Kate in the vaguest way possible, and instead of really giving the new girl a chance to make her own mark, they spent the first half of the season on 'Where is Kate Kane', which always gave the option to bring back Kate and get rid of the new girl- even though, apparently, they didn't decide to go with a recast until much later. And now they're bringing back Kate, but brainwashed (because of course, this is the CW after all. What would one of these shows be without at least one of the characters getting brainwashed?), and possibly building to where Kate comes back fully and takes back the Batwoman mantle.

Are we sure the higher ups at Warner Brothers aren't really involved in all of this? Because all of this sounds like the dumbass moves they've been making on the movie side that seem to do nothing but piss off the fans.

Yeh I don't understand why they didnt just go with the recast from the beginning, it's so confusing. Ryan is a cool character but I still think she deserved to have her own mantle instead of taking over Batwoman. I still really hope Kate returns as Batwoman and Ryan becomes her side kick kind of thing. They can be partners!

[MoneySpider]

They already had an actress cast as Mari McCabe- she did the voice in the cartoon a few years ago, and then played her in live action once. I think the reason they have never recast that role (why we got Amaya on Legends) is that they are hoping they can bring her back, but haven't due to scheduling and because she hasn't been needed story wise.

Yeah, they had Megalyn Echikunwoke, but that was 5 years ago and I'd be very surprised if she ever played Vixen in live action again. They kept talking about how they were hoping to bring her back but unless she's been constantly working for the past 5 years, I think she has moved on (at least from the live action Vixen stuff, since she still seems to be doing Vixen voicework in video games and stuff).

Plus there are rumors that HBO Max might be doing a live action Vixen series, but I haven't heard which actress might be attached to that.

[wleakr]

I may be wrong on this but...after seeing presumably (I missed the first half of tonight's episode) a brainwashed Kate and Black Mask in the same room as Alice...ummmm....Black Mask has a vocal cadence that sounds an awful lot like the dad.

I really didn't think much about until tonight. But he's been masked for a lot of episodes and usually when a show goes a long time, it's to make for a shock reveal when the mask comes off. Honestly, there is no one but the dad that fits that. The only other person might be the Crow agent that trying so hard to find Ryan out, but that wouldn't be much of a shock.

I just can't see it being a random anymore, And most likely the dad was brainwashed, just like his daughters, by Dr. Rhyme/Enigma, into being Black Mask. I know it wouldn't entirely make sense,as I think they have been in the same scene together at some point, but the way they speak, granted even with mask on, has a similar style.

[Caivu]

^ Except... we know who plays Black Mask, and it's not Dougray Scott. This would also mean Jacob is keeping his own daughter kidnapped and brainwashed and got himself addicted to the drug he also somehow has time to manage the distribution of.

[wleakr]

^ Except... we know who plays Black Mask, and it's not Dougray Scott. This would also mean Jacob is keeping his own daughter kidnapped and brainwashed and got himself addicted to the drug he also somehow has time to manage the distribution of.

I know it a huge stretch. He could've been brainwashed earlier to make it work. Tobin Bell was the voice of Savitar and another villain on Flash but we never actually saw him physically. Until he takes the mask off, he could be anybody. I just can't see him taking it off and it's just some random face. Initially, I could, but it's been covered for too long now.

[wleakr]

Wow - disregard! I catch up on 1st half this morning and the face is revealed!

[Anarchist]

Wonder what they plan to do with Alice?
Brainwash her as well?

[The Darknight Detective]

Wonder what they plan to do with Alice?
Brainwash her as well?

"You get a brainwash! You get a brainwash! Everybody gets a brainwash!"

[AnakinFlair]

"You get a brainwash! You get a brainwash! Everybody gets a brainwash!"

Why not? That seems to be the ONLY plot they know how to write. Season 3 of Arrow, Thea gets drugged. Season 1 of Supergirl, Myriad. Season 5, Non Nochere (and Malefac with his Q-Waves). Season 6 of The Flash, Bloodwork. Season 1 of Stargirl, mind control of half the country's population. Black Lightning - basically Painkiller. Hell, Legends of Tomorrow- how many times has reality been re-written where the Legends end up serving the bad guys in some way? Frankly, I'm sick of it.

At this point, though, the real question is how long will Kate be under? How fast will she be saved and/or break free?

[Vakanai]

I think they're going to kill Kate.

[sorboares]

Found it very strange that Batwoman just left and walked out while Alice needed help in tonights episode.
I can't wait to see Kate properly but I love how she fought Batwoman and was much better than her.

[wleakr]

Found it very strange that Batwoman just left and walked out while Alice needed help in tonights episode.
I can't wait to see Kate properly but I love how she fought Batwoman and was much better than her.

That was totally in-character. I get the whole "hero protects all no matter what", but that's not realistic when a villain kills someone significant in your life. Batwoman at least held back from killing/causing serious harm directly herself.

[AnakinFlair]

I think they're going to kill Kate.

That was totally in-character. I get the whole "hero protects all no matter what", but that's not realistic when a villain kills someone significant in your life. Batwoman at least held back from killing/causing serious harm directly herself.

I don't think they'll kill her- why bring her back at all, just to kill her off again?

And Ryan leaving Alice, after Alice had JUST saved her life- I think that showed that Ryan really DOESN'T have what it takes to be a hero. A hero would have put aside personal feelings and saved Alice. By walking out, she proved that she can't put aside personal feelings to get the job done. I think they are starting to build the case of why they are going to take the mantel away from Ryan and give it back to Kate eventually.

[Frontier]

So they're taking Circe, Black Mask's lover that he scarred and stuck in a mask, and making her into his daughter and a false, brainwashed, identity for Kate? Okay.

I have to admit I'm kind of impressed it took them this long for Black Mask to take his mask off.

So that's how the cave knows when the Bat-Signal is lit. They get an alert. I always kind of wondered...

Y'know, Ryan calling out the Crows not protecting Angelique feels kind of disrespectful to the Crows agents that died in the line of duty trying to transport her. Like, is it their fault for getting killed?

Alice does a walk of shame after she wakes up in bed with Ocean and then scrambles to try and save him after he gets kidnapped. Alice just can't be consistent with anyone, can she? Well, other than I guess the people she genuinely hates. I guess Ocean is probably going to try and save her from Black Mask now.

Alice and Ryan have a good banter going, I have to admit, though Alice is as bad a passenger in the Batmobile as Harley Quinn.

It's kind of surreal that Sophie discovers Jacob is a drug addict before his med student daughter. I guess Mary was just too happy that he acquiesced to her new clinic, although are we to assume he only gave permission because of the drugs? I mean, it's probably a better option than Mary being an illegal doctor for the rest of her medical career.

Although why the heck would Jacob just leaves drug needles lying around in his trash? Is he really that dumb, even under drugs?

So now both Kane sisters have a thing for knives.

I feel like I underestimated how tough Kate was because she was kicking Ryan's butt the whole time, and Alice didn't do much better. Gotta respect the original .

Alice will never get to bring up the "twin telepathy" thing against Kate again when she failed to realize she was looking at/fighting Kate.

"She has to be in the system!" Because she's black? I mean, I guess a lot of people have criminal records or are in that database, but still.

I'm glad Angelique was finally able to be self-aware and acknowledge her issues and that Ryan deserved better. Nothing breaks a relationship up like the witness protection program, though. But at least they were able to make peace with each other and leave on a good note.

That was totally in-character. I get the whole "hero protects all no matter what", but that's not realistic when a villain kills someone significant in your life. Batwoman at least held back from killing/causing serious harm directly herself.

I don't think they'll kill her- why bring her back at all, just to kill her off again?

And Ryan leaving Alice, after Alice had JUST saved her life- I think that showed that Ryan really DOESN'T have what it takes to be a hero. A hero would have put aside personal feelings and saved Alice. By walking out, she proved that she can't put aside personal feelings to get the job done. I think they are starting to build the case of why they are going to take the mantel away from Ryan and give it back to Kate eventually.

I get why she did it, but coming off right after Alice had gone out of her way to save her, revealed she did actually care about Ryan's mom dying (at least enough to remember her by name), and then beg for help...Ryan just came off petty and bitter. Like, she should know by now that she has to uphold a certain standard and bailing because you can't be bothered or don't care just runs kind of opposite that.

I mean, Angelique was more of her priority here than stopping Black Mask or protecting her identity. We know she does care because she's committed to the community center and helping Gotham instead of running off with Angelique, but still.

[AnakinFlair]

So that's how the cave knows when the Bat-Signal is lit. They get an alert. I always kind of wondered...

Alice will never get to bring up the "twin telepathy" thing against Kate again when she failed to realize she was looking at/fighting Kate.

- They can't all be like Bruce, sitting in the dark in Wayne Manor in the Rodin Thinker pose until the light shines on his face

- I do wonder how Alice will take this when Kate is freed- now Kate has essentially gone through the exact same thing as Alice did. Kidnapped after a crash, held in captivity, made into someone else... it's the same story.

Oh, and I appreciated how badly Kate/Circe kicked Ryan's ass in that fight. It's one of the things I've had a problem with, having Ryan take over the mantel- Kate spent years traveling, training to be the best warrior she could be. Ryan hasn't had that kind of training, and despite whatever skills she may have, she wouldn't be a match for someone like Kate, physically. Now, they could run with this and have Ryan try to find another way to beat her, and depending on how they do that, it could be an interesting fight. I guess time will tell.