Cinematic Thor vs Cinematic Superman

[The Arbiter]

I posted this video in the another (JLA) thread. Thor did not endure the whole power of the star but the energy he had to endure was still very impressive.

Can you time stamp the relevant part? Because I've heard the guy say "withstood the energy equivalent of all the power sources on earth running for 6 months" and "the power required to vaporize 48 billion people" lol. Both are still waaaaay too good.

Not to mention he is still making a bunch of super science assumptions on this thing that is covered in a ancient magic/tech Dyson sphere, complete with space rings doing god knows what. The movie clearly intended it to be "neutron star, wow!" Trying our hardest to make it anything but is needlessly convoluted given that we are filling in so many blanks and making so many assumptions. The only real dialogue we get to go off of is Sindri saying "yup it's a star. yer gonna be in it" lol

[The Dork Knight]

Trying to justify the Thor star thing with fan calcs or comparisons to gas explosions is wilfully ignoring
1) That Thor was taking a beam of that thing focused through a man sized portal
2) the scale involved

Surviving star level anything flies in the face of, as repeatedly noted, the Hela knives that didn't affect Surtur. A star is huuuuge. Orders and orders of magnitude above anything else Thor has done

It's like constantly trying to justify Deathstroke tagging Flashes or similar speedster SMvsFL. "Flash was only going so fast / caught by surprise"

But the Flash can't be caught by surprise because the Flash's superspeed is soooo many orders of magnitude above even having say "bombs going off beside him /leaving him no room to dodge". But the Flash always has room because he's a gazillion times faster. Similar when people try to justify Thor even surviving star level anything

The very fact that there is a body left flies in the face of the kind of magnitude stars operate on. For that feat to valid you have to use the old Deathstroke argument "the Flash was only going so fast/star was only so hot as to not kill a dude who was hurt by knives that didn't hurt a dude who died from island busting." in which case the feat loses relevance anyway

[kane]

Can you time stamp the relevant part? Because I've heard the guy say "withstood the energy equivalent of all the power sources on earth running for 6 months" and "the power required to vaporize 48 billion people" lol. Both are still waaaaay too good.

Not to mention he is still making a bunch of super science assumptions on this thing that is covered in a ancient magic/tech Dyson sphere, complete with space rings doing god knows what. The movie clearly intended it to be "neutron star, wow!" Trying our hardest to make it anything but is needlessly convoluted given that we are filling in so many blanks and making so many assumptions. The only real dialogue we get to go off of is Sindri saying "yup it's a star. yer gonna be in it" lol

I think the relevant parts are at 6.28 and 9.20.

And of course it is based on estimates and assumptions. It is a fictional universe after all. But I think this is a close as we can get to judge the feat. And it is more or less consistent with the movie, where it was stated at least two times that it is a neutron star.

[The Arbiter]

I think the relevant parts are at 6.28 and 9.20.

And of course it is based on estimates and assumptions. It is a fictional universe after all. But I think this is a close as we can get to judge the feat. And it is more or less consistent with the movie, where it was stated at least two times that it is a neutron star.

Like Dork was saying, all of this theory crafting is essentially useless. Instead of just accepting the feat for what they intended it to be, we make justifications for it based on nothing we can really support.

Its like trying to say (on comics) "Thor has feats of getting zorched by a Celestial and getting back on his feet!". Then someone mentions how a previous Celestial zorched Odin Powered Destroyer armor to slag. So then the previous guy goes "Well I guess the Celestial wasn't going all out on thor. But still!" It becomes a 'but still' nothing, situation. It loses relevance regardless.

Its easier to just go "what were they smoking" and call it an outlier. They clearly wanted us to take it at face value.

[kane]

Like Dork was saying, all of this theory crafting is essentially useless. Instead of just accepting the feat for what they intended it to be, we make justifications for it based on nothing we can really support.

Its like trying to say (on comics) "Thor has feats of getting zorched by a Celestial and getting back on his feet!". Then someone mentions how a previous Celestial zorched Odin Powered Destroyer armor to slag. So then the previous guy goes "Well I guess the Celestial wasn't going all out on thor. But still!" It becomes a 'but still' nothing, situation. It loses relevance regardless.

Its easier to just go "what were they smoking" and call it an outlier. They clearly wanted us to take it at face value.

I would agree with you if it was just a side note. Something what just happened by the way. But it was not. It was an important part of the movie. They explicitly tell us that is a neutron star, Etri explicitly even points out that it might kill him because it is a neutron star. Then we see him tanking all that power and almost die. The creators of the movie explicitly created a feat of him tanking a part of the output of a neutron star, they intend to have him that durable (at least when it comes to energy resistance, we have no new feats on blunt force and swords and stuff). And I think it is consistant with the developement of Thor in Ragnarok. Odin stated that Thor is stronger than him. But we did not see that in Ragnator yet, which for me meant that it takes Thor some time to get there. And I think the neutron star feat is a part of this development (or maybe the ending point). Thor is now the heir of Odin and an allfather and that might have trigered some changes.

We have to wait until Avengers 4 or Thor 4 to see it it was really just a outlier.

[The Dork Knight]

I would agree with you if it was just a side note. Something what just happened by the way. But it was not. It was an important part of the movie. They explicitly tell us that is a neutron star, Etri explicitly even points out that it might kill him because it is a neutron star. Then we see him tanking all that power and almost die. The creators of the movie explicitly created a feat of him tanking a part of the output of a neutron star, they intend to have him that durable (at least when it comes to energy resistance, we have no new feats on blunt force and swords and stuff). And I think it is consistant with the developement of Thor in Ragnarok. Odin stated that Thor is stronger than him. But we did not see that in Ragnator yet, which for me meant that it takes Thor some time to get there. And I think the neutron star feat is a part of this development (or maybe the ending point). Thor is now the heir of Odin and an allfather and that might have trigered some changes.

We have to wait until Avengers 4 or Thor 4 to see it it was really just a outlier.

Hereabouts we toss out things even if they are explicit plot points in the story, if they're inconsistent with a character's overall history

As far as Thor reaching his full potential goes Thor's received power up was not enough to stop Hela from putting him down in Ragnarok when she otherwise fails against Surtur. It wasn't enough to stop Thanos and the Black Order. It wasn't enough to stay conscious after the ship was destroyed in a blast. And not at all long after, not as in a year to develop his powers or something, he tanks a star. This is simply at odds with how Thor is portrayed till that point, even after said power up

[The Arbiter]

What Dork said. Being important to the story doesn't matter for Forum standards.

Another thing people are quick to forget is that his power up is an activated state always accompanied by glowing eyes. No glowing eyes = baseline Thor. His eyes only glowed once in IW iirc and it wasn't for the star. It was during his extremely awesome entrance to the Wakandan battlefield.

[The Arbiter]

Here is the thing... I think Thor is awesome. I've been collecting his comics for a while now. Talking to my friends in a casual setting, we all go "dude that star scene was sweet, Thor is a legit monster" and I agree. But I choose to debate on this Forum and the price of doing business is following the rules. So I have to look at things in a different way when I debate. Based on forum guidelines, this appears to be an outlier when compared to his fairly large career average so far.

If he duplicates a similar feat in the next movie, expect me to be arguing in his favor.

[Pendaran]

We have to wait until Avengers 4 or Thor 4 to see it it was really just a outlier.

Your argument boils down to "it happened therefore it counts" mixed with "because convoluted fan based scientific analysis that was not in any way factored into any of this movie being made nor can be shown to be."

[rhyvurg]

Speaking of the other thread, this is literally the same unsupportable theory crafting that got you thread kicked by the Watcher for it not being up to snuff on forum standards. Are you sure you want to go down that road? Even your wording is nearly identical.

The Collector's slave girl held the stone for twice as long as Thor was being pressed against it. Is she more durable than him? What scene specifically in Ragnarok gives you the impression Thor can suddenly tank hundreds of atomic explosions (thousands? the level to mess up an planets surface is probably more) post upgrade? Especially when a Morningstar knocks him on his butt exclaiming in pain.

In fact, where specifically did it say in Ragnarok that his upgrade was supposed to give him more durability in general? Everything about the dialogue seemed to suggest it was lightning in nature. "The hammer was just a tool to focus, but it was never the source of your power" and blah blah.

The hypocrisy is a little bizarre when the same crew of people are going "Wonder Woman's sword can't cut bone even though its cut literally every brick it hit, including the guy who's hand was cut off, because in the middle of all those instances it had one bad showing so HAH!" are also the same people going "despite no explicit dialogue, narration or otherwise, we are going to stretch the limits of our imagination to now accurately determine exactly how much damage the neutron star was doing based on eyeballing it, despite all the super science unknowable, unsupportable and straight up SMvFL natures of the scene in general, all the way to the point of saying Thanos was then torturing Thor with continent killing energies instead of just pressing the thing to him which yknow a slave girl technically held at least as long, but who cares!"

Obviously Thor is more durable than the slave girl btw lol. My point is the hypocrisy. Will argue to the death that stuff that happened in the movie that needs no great amount of explaining is an outlier because of one small bad performance, but when an enormous amount of logic, science and dialogue are missing to accept a drastic SMvFL outlier, where the only real dialogue was "yup that's a star, a real star, you are bathing in a star" you rush to imagine up all that missing science, dialogue and logic to make the feat somehow work, despite the creators of the movie certainly never intending for it to work the way you are suggesting. They in fact probably gave it no thought at all outside of "heh stars are cool this will be cool".

Again, it's literally the same argument that got you thread kicked for failing to abide by forum standards of debate. Same wording, everything.

Edit: and now you are saying her sword didn't do anything to Steppenwolf apparently. Despite it cutting and bleeding him.

Nope, because I'm not trying to claim the power stone is a planet level weapon on it's own. This is the only time her sword touches him in their first encounter, she only manages to strike sparks off his armor. In the final battle, she hits him here and here, and besides those three times, her blade never touches him. And unless I missed something, not a drop of blood. Aquaman drew blood though. As for the slave girl, she was just holding it, not using it. They don't have to say his upgrade gave him more durability, we know his powers changed and suddenly his feats grew at the same time, it's simple logical extrapolation. And, do I really have to explain how cutting bone is harder than cutting flesh? Besides, Thor losing to Thanos at the start of the movie was required for the plot. Thor being exposed to a star wasn't. I was under the impression this board dismissed PIS low showings? When the next movie comes out and Thor is hit by other, non-star things, we have more information to go on. But as things are now, the feat, in my opinion, should stand.

[The Arbiter]

I'm glad you posted that last imgur link actually.

https://youtu.be/mB1VEKvUPR0

Stop at around 50 seconds. Clearly his purple blood is leaking from that same spot.

[rhyvurg]

I'm glad you posted that last imgur link actually.

https://youtu.be/mB1VEKvUPR0

Stop at around 50 seconds. Clearly his purple blood is leaking from that same spot.

Three and a half minute add in front of a two minute and 24 second video. Youtube, I effing swear. You know I got an "advertisement" once that was a full eight hour livestream?

And I'm glad you brought that up, because that colored blotch is not only not where she hit him, there's no damage to his armor in that spot that I can see on fullscreen in 1080p. Where's her cut? That's more likely splash from Aquaman stabbing him. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

[The Arbiter]

Three and a half minute add in front of a two minute and 24 second video. Youtube, I effing swear. You know I got an "advertisement" once that was a full eight hour livestream?

And I'm glad you brought that up, because that colored blotch is not only not where she hit him, there's no damage to his armor in that spot that I can see on fullscreen in 1080p. Where's her cut? That's more likely splash from Aquaman stabbing him. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

YouTube is the devil I swear. Its been getting more and more ridiculous. I feel your pain.

Blood is leaking through the thinner part of his armor on his left hip. Right where the sword struck. I can see it ok despite the brief window of the close up shot.

Anyways I can't change your eyes, so I'm not sure where to go from here :P

[Nik Hasta]

It's also weird that, in that same scene, Steppenwolf is holding his other side to where he got cut.

Dafuq?

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

It's also weird that, in that same scene, Steppenwolf is holding his other side to where he got cut.

Dafuq?

There's a joke here about DC and consistency.