NEW Circe In S/WW #16: A Pre-Crisis Super-villain Returned To Macabre Greatness!

[Vanguard-01]

she is not a monster, right. But she looks like a dominatrix or anything else, but not like a witch

Should she have warts, wear a pointy hat, and ride a broomstick?

Modern-setting witches often wear black leather and other BDSM-esque outfits. Zatanna's original New 52 outfit could even look a little "dominatrix-y."

She's a woman with a lot of power who clearly enjoys dominating people. Her dressing a bit like a dominatrix makes perfect sense anyway.

[Mel Dyer]

She's not supposed to be horrific. Circe is a treacherous, cunning witch, not a monster. Her design could be a tad more extravagant and regal-looking but to me she looks pretty cool.

That's precisely my point. This new Circe, a modernization of the pre-Crisis original, is supposed to be horrific AND monstrous. If you want regal and extravagant, check out the Queen of Fables, ..whom I prefer to Circe, anyway!

Fables is REALLY creepsville, mami.

[Blacksun]

Should she have warts, wear a pointy hat, and ride a broomstick?

Modern-setting witches often wear black leather and other BDSM-esque outfits. Zatanna's original New 52 outfit could even look a little "dominatrix-y."

She's a woman with a lot of power who clearly enjoys dominating people. Her dressing a bit like a dominatrix makes perfect sense anyway.

zatanna is a modern magician, her outfits were always sexy.


despite some of her outfits being sexy because you know it still give some audience to the series, this one is a good example of her looking a villain even with leather.

alright her liking to dominate people, who doesn't like? I think is much more interesting seeing circe clothes being more mythology greek than a unoriginal leather fetish

[OBrianTallent]

That's precisely my point. This new Circe, a modernization of the pre-Crisis original, is supposed to be horrific AND monstrous. If you want regal and extravagant, check out the Queen of Fables, ..whom I prefer to Circe, anyway!

Fables is REALLY creepsville, mami.

Loved Queen of Fables and thought she was perfect for Wonder Woman. I would love to see her back,but they would change everything completely about her and make her look totally different and she wouldn't be remotely the same. So, oh well.

As for Circe, I'm actually liking the new look. Motivation is what it is and makes something fairly interesting out of the mess that has been made of the Amazons.

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

That's precisely my point. This new Circe, a modernization of the pre-Crisis original, is supposed to be horrific AND monstrous. If you want regal and extravagant, check out the Queen of Fables, ..whom I prefer to Circe, anyway!

Fables is REALLY creepsville, mami.

Pretty sure some of you were just really hoping Circe would look like Maleficent which as far as the movie goes, was not a very dreadful looking witch either. The Queen of Fables looks like an overdone cliché to me, it's not a brilliant design in my eyes. Circe, like I mentioned earlier, is not an award winning design either but overall she looks good, I love love love her cape/cloak, I think it's divine and I've never seen that before so points for creativity. She looks like she'd get along nicely with Strife, or the opposite. Strife imo is what I consider a remarkable design though I'm sure Finch will mangle her, just like Daniel did. Strife just can't pull off that dress with big **** imo

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

zatanna is a modern magician, her outfits were always sexy.


despite some of her outfits being sexy because you know it still give some audience to the series, this one is a good example of her looking a villain even with leather.

alright her liking to dominate people, who doesn't like? I think is much more interesting seeing circe clothes being more mythology greek than a unoriginal leather fetish

So this is what you were hoping she would look like? gtfo

[Outside_85]

No, I'm not excusing anything because I firmly believe what you're purporting isn't there to begin with...

And I suppose we should just leave it at that, I see a problem, you dont, neither of us are going to make the other budge. So lets just agree to disagee on this point.

Catwoman and Black Cat don't wear long flowing dresses over their pants.

Which I have said a few times now, does not matter.

In the long run? It's certainly a possibility, especially if the people who dislike it are to afraid to say anything. It's already happened over at Marvel, thank God I'm not a devoted Thor fan.

Well the book with the new Thor has been great so far, so /shrug.

No, but I may have if I were fond of her previous look.

Poison Ivy on the other hand? Yes, I've complained about that in the past.

In a way I do excuse Ivy for wearing next to nothing because, despite her human birth, she now considers her more plant than human. Covering herself might still linger at the back of her mind because she was human once, but what human's find decent and acceptable are trappings she no longer cares for.

You haven't been watching the right ones, then.

I hated Hostel. Only movie I've ever walked out of and demanded my money back.

Insidious, however, was delightfully disturbing and had almost no blood or gore in it of any kind. Seriously, the only blood I remember in that movie was a bloody handprint on a bed sheet.

That is quite possible.

As for standing around making statements? That's literally all MOW Circe did, too. Tomasi's Circe captured Diana with a wave of her hand and turned Superman into a monster with a similar wave.

You are right she did make a statement, thats what she was there to do. What she didn't do was posturing, which besides the gestures you mentioned, was all Circe did the entire issue; talk about her old hurt feelings. If the Finch's were writing the SM/WW book I wouldn't have been half surprised if she broke down in tears once either Diana or Clark gets a hand on her.

I wasn't unnerved at all. She was boring. The fact that she was mostly naked was the only reason I remember anything about that scene at all.

Well I bought the issues specifically for her presence so thats why I remember it. As for boring... well thats the feeling I felt about Tomasi's, not scary, not intimidating, just a talking head.

Yeah, she was seductive in MOW, so I really don't see what your problem is with a portrayal of Circe in which she is wearing more clothes and ISN'T trying to give Superman or Diana a lap dance while she talks to them.

It takes more to be seductive than a seemingly lack of attire.

My problem is that she's been returned to being a boring stereotype, it's like Tomasi (or whoever designed this) took one look at the MoW design and decided she didn't look evil to them so they brainstormed for two seconds and stuffed her in a black leather getup to get her to radiate her 'I'm your mistress' personality.

It's been a Wonder Woman tradition for some time now to say that Circe wasn't "content" on her island. She simply couldn't escape it, until recently, when she figured out a way to do so.

You were talking about the mythological one.

Nope. But she seems much more similar to her mythological counterpart this time around.

Not really. Like many, if not most, of the ancient myths, DC has taken the name and the powers, and the pretty much abandoned the rest.

Everyone around her? Once again, Sex and Power are potent combinations. A sexy woman will turn heads. A powerful woman will turn heads. A powerful AND sexy woman can bring nations to their knees.

And a really good one can do it without putting herself on display.

I somehow think you wouldn't have time to laugh your ass off, while you're trying to avoid being killed by her.

I would certainly find the time to do so. Maybe after I threw a rock at her.

I thought she was plenty scary-looking. The fact that she's pretty effortlessly owning the two most powerful heroes in the DCU emphasizes this.

That just means you are scared of the power she wields, not the person wielding it. Are you scared of the gun or the man holding it?

And since when is "ethereal" the be-all-end-all word to describe Circe? "Ethereal" basically means "light, airy, and without substance." Do any of these terms scream "You should take this lady seriously?"

It's the most fitting word I could come up with to describe the debut appearance of Circe in the New 52. I could also have used eerie or otherwordly, she was to Joe Rock the same as Galadriel in LotR was to most non-elves. When encounteres, she didn't have to say a word and they knew they were in the presence of someone far older, wiser and far more powerful than them.

Tomasi's Cire is smacking around Superman and Wonder Woman without difficulty. MOW "ethereal" Circe just lap danced a mere mortal against his will and sent him away. Which approach is more likely to get writers to treat Circe as a serious character to you?

Depends if they are adult and capable writers or 12.

It's not beneath Luthor to dress like a biker because he has power and money. HE would consider dressing that way beneath him because he views himself as a refined gentleman. The money and power don't even factor into it. Lex could lose all his money and toys tomorrow, and he still wouldn't start dressing like a biker, unless it was part of some scheme of his that would serve his purpose.

Let me just point out that Lex doesn't consider himself a gentleman, you are well aware he is the kind of person that will have old people and children pushed aside if they get in his way up a flight of stairs. In his mind, he is already king of the world, its just the rest of the world that hasn't caught up with the memo.

Circe has been a sexy character for pretty much as long as she's existed in DC. She's powerful AND she likes to dress and act sexy. If tomorrow DC produces a male character with lots of money and power who also likes to dress in some kind of sexy fashion? You won't hear me complaining about it.

She hasn't really. She's had a very peculiar sense of fashion at all times, but the only time she used sexy for anything was against Nemesis.

The pants are proof-positive that this outfit of Circe's is in no way intended to be exploitative or oversexualized. All things considered, it's a pretty modest outfit.

Do you know the term: "Leaving nothing to the imagination." Because thats quite fitting way to describe Circe's leather getup.

There's nothing remotely modest about MOW Circe's "outfit." One stiff breeze, and she's showing you everything.

Think you'd need quite alot more than a hurricane to move that piece of cloth without her say so. And like I said, it serves a purpose, the corset and posture collar does not.

And please, explain to me how any of this translates to presenting Circe as a serious character? She showed up, gave a guy a lap dance, gave him an obscure warning, and then let him go. Big deal.

It's the sense of there being far more to her than what you see, which you have said time and again, has passed you by.
SM/WW Circe however, she is exactly what we see, hence why she actually has to use her power to let us know she is actually a threat.

Tomasi's Circe is taking on Superman and Wonder Woman, and she's currently winning. And she's doing it while wearing clothes and not acting like a ditz.

No, she's a boring talking head with a monologue that took up a sizable portion of the issue and a stereotypical design.

Redesign and a better writer, would do her wonders.

Zatanna's original New 52 outfit could even look a little "dominatrix-y."

Goth=/=Dominatrix, just saying.

[Vanguard-01]

You are right she did make a statement, thats what she was there to do. What she didn't do was posturing, which besides the gestures you mentioned, was all Circe did the entire issue; talk about her old hurt feelings. If the Finch's were writing the SM/WW book I wouldn't have been half surprised if she broke down in tears once either Diana or Clark gets a hand on her.

And the next issue is going to be Diana fighting Circe by proxy by fighting Superman. Once that's taken care of, they'll have to fight Circe directly. From everything we've seen? That's going to be a fight.

Well I bought the issues specifically for her presence so thats why I remember it. As for boring... well thats the feeling I felt about Tomasi's, not scary, not intimidating, just a talking head.

That "talking head" is actually DOING something, unlike MOW Circe. She just invaded a city, sent a powerful champion to almost kill Superman and Wonder Woman, captured Wonder Woman with a gesture, and turned Superman into a monster with yet another gesture.

The "talking head" was the standard-issue backstory reveal so that people understand what Circe's about. This happens with pretty much every new villain in their debut.

It takes more to be seductive than a seemingly lack of attire.

Like rubbing your nearly naked body all over someone?

And a really good one can do it without putting herself on display.

MOW Circe is the one putting herself on display. She's practically NAKED.

THIS Circe is wearing a complete outfit and is showing off nothing but some cleavage.

That just means you are scared of the power she wields, not the person wielding it. Are you scared of the gun or the man holding it?

Circe IS the gun. Her powers are part of her.

She's dangerously unstable, cruel, and can do horrible things to people with the greatest of ease. That's scary.

It's the most fitting word I could come up with to describe the debut appearance of Circe in the New 52. I could also have used eerie or otherwordly, she was to Joe Rock the same as Galadriel in LotR was to most non-elves. When encounteres, she didn't have to say a word and they knew they were in the presence of someone far older, wiser and far more powerful than them.

I'm sure Diana knew she was in the presence of someone far older, wiser, and possibly more powerful than her. Considering that she rather routinely encounters such beings, and that she has the power to fight them, she just wasn't as awestruck by this fact as a puny human with no powers and no experience in dealing with magical foes.

Depends if they are adult and capable writers or 12.

A naked woman giggling and rubbing herself on a guy is NOT going to make the same impression as a woman swatting Superman and Wonder Woman like flies. Any adult OR twelve-year-old knows that.

Let me just point out that Lex doesn't consider himself a gentleman, you are well aware he is the kind of person that will have old people and children pushed aside if they get in his way up a flight of stairs. In his mind, he is already king of the world, its just the rest of the world that hasn't caught up with the memo.

As I said, he FANCIES himself a gentleman. The fact that he will quickly abandon the façade speaks of his true nature as a narcissistic egomaniac.

Yeah, he thinks he's the king of the world. And the king of the world doesn't dress like a biker. To Lex? A $10,000 business suit or a powerful suit of power armor speaks of his power and greatness. To Circe? A black leather fantasy queen outfit does the same thing.

Two different characters with two different opinions on what says "Power."

She hasn't really. She's had a very peculiar sense of fashion at all times, but the only time she used sexy for anything was against Nemesis.

She also slept with Ares and got pregnant by him.

Do you know the term: "Leaving nothing to the imagination." Because thats quite fitting way to describe Circe's leather getup.

How does wearing nothing but a gauzy piece of cloth qualify as "Leaving something to the imagination" but wearing a full outfit that shows very little skin doesn't?

Think you'd need quite alot more than a hurricane to move that piece of cloth without her say so. And like I said, it serves a purpose, the corset and posture collar does not.

Superman's cape serves no purpose, when you get down to it. Diana's tiara serves no purpose, especially in the New 52, where it isn't even a throwing weapon anymore. The wings on the side of Flash's mask serve no purpose. Diana wearing a swimsuit that should be riding up her butt every five seconds serves no purpose.

Lots of costume designs have superfluous features.

And that ribbon serves no purpose at all other than to allow DC to publish this book without a "Mature" ranking. You can still see every inch of her body, you just can't see the "naughty bits" in crystal clear evidence.

It's the sense of there being far more to her than what you see, which you have said time and again, has passed you by.
SM/WW Circe however, she is exactly what we see, hence why she actually has to use her power to let us know she is actually a threat.

I get that MOW Circe was supposed to be mysterious. I don't care, is the problem. She did nothing to leave an impression. No writer is going to read that scene and go "Wow! I can build a whole eight-month event around this woman!"

Tomasi's Circe showed her power because showing power is how characters get taken seriously. Showing what she's capable of is kind of the point of having her in a book in the first place. If she just floats around, lap-dancing random men, and never DOES anything, then no one's going to give a damn about her.

[QUOTE]0No, she's a boring talking head with a monologue that took up a sizable portion of the issue and a stereotypical design.
Redesign and a better writer, would do her wonders.]/QUOTE]

MOW Circe is a boring talking head who also took up a sizable portion of the issue with a monologue that didn't even advance the story of the issue in any way.

Sounds to me like SHE needed the redesign. And she got one.

[chlj1]

Costumes are iconic and a structural part of the character's appeal, it can completely change your perception of them. Chiang's Wonder Woman looked like a warrior despite the bathing suit, she was strong, her boots were awesome, overall she looked fantastic and her costume actually looked like volleyball/track and field attire. However Daniel's, wearing almost the exact same bathing suit, looked more like a stripper from eastern europe and that combined with Soule's mediocre characterization, really put me off. Finch's Wonder Woman looks super delicate, it feels like if you bump against that woman, you'll break her. Details do matter, a bunch really, it can make or break a character for sure. Circe doesn't look like a dominatrix to me, her look matches her personality rather nicely I think so I'm pleased with it.

I can't say I agree with you!! WW look no less the warrior, when draw by Daniel or finch!! Never thought chiang art was that good!! Always thought his art looks like something you see on the cartoon network adventure time series! Azz. version of WW is the worst of any of her past version, I thought the way he changed her history, changing her making her more of a ant-hero then a true hero, making her into much more of a darker character!! I really don't like WW these days!! I dropped her solo comic, the justice league comics she appears in! These only comic I still read that she appear in is the SM/WW comics. I'm seriously thinking about dropping that comic too!! She's no along a hero to me anymore!

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

I can't say I agree with you!! WW look no less the warrior, when draw by Daniel or finch!! Never thought chiang art was that good!! Always thought his art looks like something you see on the cartoon network adventure time series! Azz. version of WW is the worst of any of her past version, I thought the way he changed her history, changing her making her more of a ant-hero then a true hero, making her into much more of a darker character!! I really don't like WW these days!! I dropped her solo comic, the justice league comics she appears in! These only comic I still read that she appear in is the SM/WW comics. I'm seriously thinking about dropping that comic too!! She's no along a hero to me anymore!

Nah Chiang achieves a great balance between realism and caricature, his proportions are more or less correct, he doesn't take it too far like say Erica Henderson or Darwyn Cooke. Azz's Wonder Woman was decidedly not an anti-hero, I don't know where you got that from. For me he dumbed her down a little and I was upset about that but she was nonetheless a very likable, congenial and compassionate character. The story actually put a lot of emphasis on those attributes.

[chlj1]

Nah Chiang achieves a great balance between realism and caricature, his proportions are more or less correct, he doesn't take it too far like say Erica Henderson or Darwyn Cooke. Azz's Wonder Woman was decidedly not an anti-hero, I don't know where you got that from. For me he dumbed her down a little and I was upset about that but she was nonetheless a very likable, congenial and compassionate character. The story actually put a lot of emphasis on those attributes.

He may have emphasis those attributes in that story. But I believe it was his intention to focus on WW being a violent, dark God of war in his future stories, if Azz. had been allowed to continue his run!! Dc is pushing writers to focus on WW being a War God now! Their going to find away to split WW away from the rest of the DC universe, and her being a member of the trinity!! Making WW a dark character, that plays judge and jury!! Killing anyone she feels is a threat to her way of seeing justice, that will include heroes in the near future!!

[Vanguard-01]

He may have emphasis those attributes in that story. But I believe it was his intention to focus on WW being a violent, dark God of war in his future stories, if Azz. had been allowed to continue his run!! Dc is pushing writers to focus on WW being a War God now! Their going to find away to split WW away from the rest of the DC universe, and her being a member of the trinity!! Making WW a dark character, that plays judge and jury!! Killing anyone she feels is a threat to her way of seeing justice, that will include heroes in the near future!!

First? Azz WAS allowed to continue his run. It was a three-year story. He told the story he wanted to tell. He had no plans for any stories after it was over.

Second? Where is your evidence that DC is "pushing" writers to focus on the God of War stuff? There is none. The writers are focusing on the God of War stuff because it's a big change in her life and it should be explored.

Third? Diana is NOT going to turn evil. DC cares about making money. There is more long-term money to be made in NOT turning the greatest feminist icon in all of pop culture into a permanent villain. Turning her into a villain would get them a temporary sales boost at best, and then sales would go down as pretty much EVERYONE turns against them.

Fourth? She most definitely will NOT kill any heroes. NOTHING supports that.

You keep saying all these things over and over again, and none of it ever comes true. How long are you going to keep saying these things with no evidence to support it?

[Silvanus]

First? Azz WAS allowed to continue his run. It was a three-year story. He told the story he wanted to tell. He had no plans for any stories after it was over.

Second? Where is your evidence that DC is "pushing" writers to focus on the God of War stuff? There is none. The writers are focusing on the God of War stuff because it's a big change in her life and it should be explored.

Third? Diana is NOT going to turn evil. DC cares about making money. There is more long-term money to be made in NOT turning the greatest feminist icon in all of pop culture into a permanent villain. Turning her into a villain would get them a temporary sales boost at best, and then sales would go down as pretty much EVERYONE turns against them.

Fourth? She most definitely will NOT kill any heroes. NOTHING supports that.

Wow! We've disagreed a bit since issue 35, Vanguard, so I haven't had a chance to say this--but, "THIS"!

Well said.

[Vanguard-01]

Wow! We've disagreed a bit since issue 35, Vanguard, so I haven't had a chance to say this--but, "THIS"!

Well said.

I stand by every word I've said in our other disputes. But even I don't believe for one minute that DC's trying to make Diana evil.

The Amazons suck. I want the God of War thing to end. I don't care if Hippolyta never returns from death. Hell, truth be told, I want a full-blown reboot. But if this stuff has to go on, then Diana will not become a monster, because there's no long-term profit in that.

[Mel Dyer]

...I don't believe for one minute that DC's trying to make Diana evil.

The Amazons suck. I want the God of War thing to end. I don't care if Hippolyta never returns from death. Hell, truth be told, I want a full-blown reboot...

I don't believe DC's trying to make Wonder Woman evil, but do think it's going out of it's way to make her dark, ..and I'm tired of it. Mr. Azzarello gave her the power to snikt blue swords out of her bracelets, and now she's popping halberds and other antiquated weapons out of them, and I'm tired of it, because it's overkill ..and ultimately diminishes the significance of the Golden Lasso. I'm tired of the 'God of War' business and even more tired of Diana's constantly raving, "I am DIANA, ..GOD OF WAR!"

The title is Superman/Wonder Woman. Not Superman/GOD OF WAR!

Do not want a full reboot. Enough with the reboots! Why are WW fans expected to endure so many reboots and cast changes?! No! No, no, no!