Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[Arya]

Those stories were written by different writers. That said, Silver Surfer has always been a noble soul and Storm would know this. She tends to hold back on her attacks anyway. She has never really gone all out to attack Surfer. On the other hand, when she attacked Stardust, she came at him much more ruthlessly than she ever has against Surfer by attacking Stardust at the subatomic level. She did so because she thought Stardust had murdered that gravity guy. That said, reread my previous post as I edited it to deal with the transmutation attack scenario you submitted.

That creates a baseline that shows storm can't do anything to Galactus or the surfer even when she was under the Goddess'thrall.

[rutog98]

That creates a baseline that shows storm can't do anything to Galactus or the surfer even when she was under the Goddess'thrall.

The Goddess story line you are talking about was written by Lobdell who PIS'd Storm all the time. I am not talking about a lowballed Storm, but Storm at her upper showings. If a character can wield the power of millions of stars, if they can throw attacks backed by the full power of stars, if they can tap into the universe and draw enough power to beat the Trion, if they can supersede a Herald of Galactus's control over his own energy form at the subatomic level, then they most certainly have the power to do as I claim.

Also, Stardust has gone toe-to-toe with Herald-level foes and not get blown apart by their attacks though he has been temporarily subdued in such battles. That just tells you how powerful Storm is to have blown him up. Of course she can hurt Surfer if she really wanted to as these foes Stardust has battled are easily herald level themselves.

Look, you're not going to be able to win this one, Arya. Phoenix Force Jean Grey beat Firelord by throwing an attack that Storm has bested. Storm has beaten the Trion, she has superceded a Herald's control over his own body at the subatomic level and blown that herald up (something other herald-level foes have not been able to do to Stardust), etc. The facts are on my side. She is written more powerfully in the stories I am referencing than the ones you are trying to bring up. I am not going with write downs on Storm's power levels.

Again, I freely admit that Storm is not normally written at these levels, but in some stories, she is. Therefore, she is just that dang strong.

[Arya]

Also proteus had no problem transmuting the air and everything around her into amber. Storm isn't stopping surfer from transmuting her. Heck she's been transmuted by nanny into being a preteen. She's been transmuted by Masque, Brainchild, and several others.

[rutog98]

Also proteus had no problem transmuting the air and everything around her into amber. Storm isn't stopping surfer from transmuting her. Heck she's been transmuted by nanny into being a preteen. She's been transmuted by Masque, Brainchild, and several others.

Her powers have grown since her fight with Proteus and eventhen, she is rarely written with these more exotic aspects of her powers. This isn't helping your argument. Storm has these feats. Just because these aspects of her powers are usually ignored doesn't take away the fact she has done them on panel. Give the lady her due and stop trying to take them away from her.

[Arya]

Her powers have grown since her fight with Proteus and eventhen, she is rarely written with these more exotic aspects of her powers. This isn't helping your argument. Storm has these feats. Give the lady her due and stop trying to take them away from her.

I have taken nothing away from her. I just know her limits which you don't accept. She never has taken a blast from Stardust. I am drawing from canon and because of that you don't agree. She wasn't lowballed, she just couldn't.

[Arya]

My point is simple, she did disintegrate Stardust but that didn't hurt him. She has never hurt the silver surfer, not once and this includes the half dozen interactions they had. She has never had the power to hurt or do anything more to get Galactus'attention. That's canon.

[yogaflame]

Can we just stop fighting, especially amongst ourselves!

[rutog98]

Arya, she did hurt Stardust. Stardust has been hurt by attacks much less powerful than what Storm did to him as such attacks which hurt him were not even strong enough to blow him apart like Storm's attack did.

Look, at the power levels Storm is normally written at, you are correct in your assessments. She can't hurt a Herald of Galactus, she can't tank a blast from a herald, she can't resist a transmutation attack, etc. However, if you take Storm at her best at her once-in-a-while high end showings, she can be pitted against any foe (abstract included) and be written as the victor without any PIS. The foundation has been established for such feats with this character as the seeds for such showings were established even going back to the gensis of this character's creation.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Oh, and she did tank a blast from Stardust in their fight and she kept right on going.

[Arya]

Arya, she did hurt Stardust. Stardust has been hurt by attacks much less powerful than what Storm did to him as such attacks which hurt him were not even strong enough to blow him apart like Storm's attack did.

Look, at the power levels Storm is normally written at, you are correct in your assessments. She can't hurt a Herald of Galactus, she can't resist a transmutation attack, etc. However, if you take Storm at her best at her once-in-a-while high end showings, she can be pitted against any foe (abstract included) and be written as the victor without any PIS. The foundation has been established for such feats with this character as the seeds for such showings were established even going back to the gensis of this character's creation.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Oh, and she did tank a blast from Stardust in their fight and she kept right on going.

Even at her highest showings she has never been able to resist transmutation... I need to correct something Stardust is a girl and she has never been taken out by weaker attacks. She's been taken out delaying Galactus' energy from eating a planet, fighting beta ray bill, and other cosmics greater than the Heralds but she is resilient. Storm is my favorite character, I love her but when multiple writers show her limits I think they should be respected. Even when we disagree I love your passion for her powers, it's just some conclusions you end up with deserve some push back. They are usually based on ignorance about the various people you compare her against.

That's problematic because it undermines the discussion about what she can do and why she should do it. I know you don't agree and you don't care how others see your discussion skills but at the same time those skills and the lack of knowledge about current continuity ultimately stunts discussion. For example, Alan Davis wrote X-Men 90 where storm and the others watched Galactus destroy the Skrull homeworld. Lobdell was long gone.

[WallStreeter]

Arya, she did hurt Stardust. Stardust has been hurt by attacks much less powerful than what Storm did to him as such attacks which hurt him were not even strong enough to blow him apart like Storm's attack did.

Look, at the power levels Storm is normally written at, you are correct in your assessments. She can't hurt a Herald of Galactus, she can't tank a blast from a herald, she can't resist a transmutation attack, etc. However, if you take Storm at her best at her once-in-a-while high end showings, she can be pitted against any foe (abstract included) and be written as the victor without any PIS. The foundation has been established for such feats with this character as the seeds for such showings were established even going back to the gensis of this character's creation.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Oh, and she did tank a blast from Stardust in their fight and she kept right on going.

I disagree with you on a lot, but Storm showed transmutation on more than one occasion. Late 70s/early 80s any powerful hero could change their clothes into their superhero costume, so Storm during the All New X-Men on multiple occasions changed her clothes into her costume.

You do realize why Storm isn't written at those levels normally? Basically the hero needs villains or threats that they have to struggle against. If Storm were written as just having to snap her fingers take down Eternity you do realize there's no place in the comics for such a character? Adult Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown who can amputate entire universes, so she is KEPT DEAD and out of the picture except for as an angelic being? Do you want Storm to be some sort of heavenly being in the after life (basically DEAD, like adult Jean)? When characters reach the ultimate in power and overcome all their struggles it means their story is OVER and DONE!

Don't get me wrong, there are many characters powerful characters I like Dr. Strange, Magik, Thor, Cable, Magneto, Jeen, Jean as the Green Phoenix, etc. But I realize any character you make all powerful is going to be written out of the picture. Matthew Malloy was made all powerful, but killed or erased from existence. You are basically advocating for the same thing to happen to Storm.

[rutog98]

Even at her highest showings she has never been able to resist transmutation... I need to correct something Stardust is a girl and she has never been taken out by weaker attacks. She's been taken out delaying Galactus' energy from eating a planet, fighting beta ray bill, and other cosmics greater than the Heralds but she is resilient. Storm is my favorite character, I love her but when multiple writers show her limits I think they should be respected. Even when we disagree I love your passion for her powers, it's just some conclusions you end up with deserve some push back. They are usually based on ignorance about the various people you compare her against.

That's problematic because it undermines the discussion about what she can do and why she should do it. I know you don't agree and you don't care how others see your discussion skills but at the same time those skills and the lack of knowledge about current continuity ultimately stunts discussion.

1) You are splitting hairs with the transmutation stuff. Storm has subatomic control over matter and energy and she has demonstrated transmutation on panel. While she does not usually wield this power, this means she can challenge somebody for control over matter at this level. If Silver Surfer wanted to transmute her, she could contest him for that by exercising control over her own body structure at the subatomic level. Likewise, if she wanted to transmute him, he could contest her in the same fashion. The victor in such a contest would likely come down to who has the strongest will and the most raw power. Storm wins on both fronts (willpower and raw power) if you take her at her very best showings.

Again, Storm does not usually exhibit this power in canon, but on the boards, we give her the full credit of her powerset.

2) In those instances you are referring to where Stardust was taken out by those attacks, how many of those attacks were strong enough to dissipate her/blow her to atoms? Storm attacked Stardust at the subatomic level and blew her apart completely dissipating her. Do you get what I am saying? None of those instances you are referring to taxed Stardust's constitution to the point her body was completely destroyed, so yes, Storm most certainly did hurt Stardust as her attack did FAR more damage than Beta Ray Bill's, etc.

3) You are correct that multiple writers have written Storm, but the stories they write are far from consistent in writing her power levels. In some stories, she can barely hit a guy riding a motorcycle. In others, she can channel the power of millions of stars, sew together realities that are coming apart at their seams, draw upon enough power to beat entities that wield the sum total power of all matter/energy/life for an entire reality's past/present/future, etc. You get my drift? My point is if you take Storm at her best, she's far more than you give her credit for and she has the feats to prove this. I don't doubt your love for the character. I believe you care for this character, but you don't give her feats all they are due. I believe you feel Storm should not be able to wield certain power levels (in her human form), so you try and figure out ways to lessen the feats she does that place her above the limits you try and impose on her. You even go the extreme of trying to find other stories where her powers are less to try and discredit the power levels she displays in stories where her feats eclipse where you say her power levels are.

4) Again, at the levels Storm is mostly portrayed at, I would agree with your assessments. She can't beat a Herald of Galactus or abstract let alone do any real damage to a character in this power class. However, whether you like it or not, she was designed to have "near-infinite" power from the start. Every now and then we get to see glimpses of the true power she wields, but holds back. When we see those glimpses, it becomes obvious that she has the power to do what I claim. It is based off of those rare feats of power that we see her display that I base my arguments in this regard.

5) We can go on and on about this, but we will never agree, to be honest. I think both sides have substantially argued their position. There really isn't anymore reason to keep debating this.

[rutog98]

I disagree with you on a lot, but Storm showed transmutation on more than one occasion. Late 70s/early 80s any powerful hero could change their clothes into their superhero costume, so Storm during the All New X-Men on multiple occasions changed her clothes into her costume.

You do realize why Storm isn't written at those levels normally? Basically the hero needs villains or threats that they have to struggle against. If Storm were written as just having to snap her fingers take down Eternity you do realize there's no place in the comics for such a character? Adult Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown who can amputate entire universes, so she is KEPT DEAD and out of the picture except for as an angelic being? Do you want Storm to be some sort of heavenly being in the after life (basically DEAD, like adult Jean)? When characters reach the ultimate in power and overcome all their struggles it means their story is OVER and DONE!

Don't get me wrong, there are many characters powerful characters I like Dr. Strange, Magik, Thor, Cable, Magneto, Jeen, Jean as the Green Phoenix, etc. But I realize any character you make all powerful is going to be written out of the picture. Matthew Malloy was made all powerful, but killed or erased from existence. You are basically advocating for the same thing to happen to Storm.

Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown only because the Phoenix Force bonded with her. They are seperate entities, yet can meld to become one. If the PF left Jean Grey, she would still be a powerful psi, but weaker than Xavier, Shadow King, Exodus, X-Man, etc. The reason adult Jean remains dead is not because of the Phoenix Force thing. A writer could bring back grown Jean and simply not have her possessed by/bonded to the PF and she would be very manageable (there are plenty of x-villains that can beat a non-PF Jean Grey). She's probably dead because writers can't think of anything new to do with her. To be honest, the character is all out of stories at this point and there really isn't anything more to say about adult Jean. On top of this, there are plenty of other X-men telepaths who are alive for writers to choose from, so why bring back yet another psi? This teenaged Jean running around is just a new angle on the "Jean Grey" character, but she's boring as heck, too. Personally, I think Jean and Jeen should both be dead and stay that way.

That said, I agree that the reason Storm is not written at her peak all the time is because the rogue's gallery she faces is not strong enough to compete with her at her high end feats. Therefore, we can only see her true power once in a blue moon. It should be understood that I am not lobbying for Storm to be written at her high end power levels at all times. It would get really boring really fast. Personally, I would like a see a story where Oshtur gives Storm a tiara that temporarily boosts Storm to her full potential so she could deal with some omniversal threat and afterwards heal the omniverse and then bring her power back down to normal.

All of this said, I think Storm needs her own solo title, where it is well thought out and well-written, with an interesting rogue's gallery and everything. She needs the "Thor treatment" as I call it. In the Avengers, Thor's power levels are written at a level that is almost always consistently less than the power levels he wields in his own solo title on a consistent level. This is done because he is being written in a team dynamic. In his own solo title, he faces more powerful threats all on his own, so we can see more of what he can do. Every now and then, in his solo title, he spikes up. I want the same thing for Storm. It would also be nice to see Storm join a team that deals with much more powerful threats than the X-Men face. That's one reason I was glad when she was a temporary member of the FF. It was a team with a small cast (meaning Storm did not have to share the spotlight with many people) and the threats were much bigger than the X-Men foes. My vote goes for her to join The Defenders with a small cast of Storm, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Mr. Fantastic, and Iron Fist. The threats in that title are massively powerful and we'd get to see Storm cut up more often.

One more thing, in the instance I am referring to where Storm did her transmutation, she was able to whip up clothing out of thin air via electron manipulation. That's beyond what she did in the 70s and 80s.

[RLAAMJR.]

Can we just stop fighting, especially amongst ourselves!

Lol. You can't stop them. They're not fighting. They just disagree with their opinion on Storm's powers.


Anyway Arya, Storm vs Invisible Woman, who will win?

[JonSilvercloud]

Ok, please don't hate me, but I gotta ask: am I the only Storm fan who doesn't care about the level of her powers? Not that it's not a valid conversation to have, but I see an awful lot of it and I'm surprised. Don't get me wrong, I feel all proud and vindicated when she does something impressive (and the whole Lightning Lass business gets on my nerves), but on the whole I really don't care that much. It's her character traits and other skills that make me love her.

I'm new here (it's the first time I talk to other Storm fans, really), so I thought I'd ask.

[Celestial]

Ok, please don't hate me, but I gotta ask: am I the only Storm fan who doesn't care about the level of her powers? Not that it's not a valid conversation to have, but I see an awful lot of it and I'm surprised. Don't get me wrong, I feel all proud and vindicated when she does something impressive (and the whole Lightning Lass business gets on my nerves), but on the whole I really don't care that much. It's her character traits and other skills that make me love her.

I'm new here (it's the first time I talk to other Storm fans, really), so I thought I'd ask.

You're not the only one. I feel the same way. A lot of the science behind her powers just makes my head hurt. But I do enjoy seeing the discussion between rutog and arya.