All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

I am really worried about the voting rights. That is Biden's other big thing. I cant think of that dying or going no where.

It's weird how Democrats are neglecting the Electoral College Count Act, considering that would be how the stuff they say they're afraid of would happen.

[worstblogever]

Manchin gave the Republicans the best christmas gift he can possibly think of.

At this point, we need Manchin to get visited by a bunch of ghosts on Christmas Eve and to be shown his miserable past, present, and future if he doesn't quit being a selfish, greedy ****.

[Mister Mets]

At this point, we need Manchin to get visited by a bunch of ghosts on Christmas Eve and to be shown his miserable past, present, and future if he doesn't quit being a selfish, greedy ****.

If he's being greedy, shouldn't rich liberals just offer him more money for the right votes?

[Tami]

If he's being greedy, shouldn't rich liberals just offer him more money for the right votes?

I just had a image of Sotheby's or Christie's motioning for Senator Manchin to come forward and the auctioneer going through the motions of trying to get the highest bidder for him.

I don't think that is a good precedent for Senators to have their votes auctioned off to the highest bidder.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I still think that the idea there was every any leverage over Manchin was mostly wishful thinking.

There was. His donors and constituents were banking on BIF. There's a reason Manchin flailed about for a bit complaining that BIF wasn't getting done. The dumbest thing the Democrats ever did was pass it. It always should have been a both or nothing. Jayapal was a complete idiot to signal to progressives to vote on BIF under the idea that Manchin after weeks of stalling was going to eventually cut some deal. He was desperate to split them up, now that they are he started playing games until he finally came out and said what he was doing.

It's what children do when they want something but don't want to do the thing neccessary to get it. Throw a fit over how you will do what you need but right now you really got to get this other thing that really matters with you done. "Dad I promise I'll do all the yard work, but please let me go play video games with my friend, why can't I do the work later". That's basically what Manchin did. The only chance Dems ever had was holding him hostage on BIF and pissing off his donors who cared more about a handout.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I am really worried about the voting rights. That is Biden's other big thing. I cant think of that dying or going no where.

That's dead too lol. Biden needs Manchin and Sinema to loosen the filibuster for that. They both have consistently been saying no. Not that it matters. Biden's team probably saw the writing on the wall with BBB and just anted to pivot to another fight that they could look noble fighting and that would have more rope to do this song and dance with the same people.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The leverage argument doesn't seem to work, as there are two explanations for the perspective of progressives, neither of which is morally acceptable.

One explanation is that the infrastructure bill is a good idea, but that they also wanted the Build Back Better Act. In this case, they're willing to hold a good bill hostage to get other stuff.

The other explanation is that the infrastructure bill is misguided, but they were willing to waste money on that garbage in order to get the votes for the Build Back Better act.

Neither of those is an inappropriate position to take.

Actually there is the real explanation that you missed. Both bills were explicitly designed as compliments and the negotiations were in off setting language in both bills. AOC went on record spelling this out once. There were things in BIF that were absolutely terrible for the environment, but it was done as a compromise because they were able to neutralize alot of it in the climate provisions of BBB so that the environment ended in a net positive for admissions.

Situations like that were all over the bill. This was why the two bills were tied to the hip and they were constantly presented this way every step of the way and it was made abundantly clear that they should never be passed separate of each other. This was never a binary situation. It was a pair of sister bills designed to be passed together and everyone knew that. Then Joe Manchin who didn't want to vote for one threw a fit and cowardly Democrats who were terrified of Biden's polls panicked and passed one hoping that eventually Manchin would settle on a negotiation standpoint.

[Gray Lensman]

There was. His donors and constituents were banking on BIF. There's a reason Manchin flailed about for a bit complaining that BIF wasn't getting done. The dumbest thing the Democrats ever did was pass it. It always should have been a both or nothing. Jayapal was a complete idiot to signal to progressives to vote on BIF under the idea that Manchin after weeks of stalling was going to eventually cut some deal. He was desperate to split them up, now that they are he started playing games until he finally came out and said what he was doing.

It's what children do when they want something but don't want to do the thing neccessary to get it. Throw a fit over how you will do what you need but right now you really got to get this other thing that really matters with you done. "Dad I promise I'll do all the yard work, but please let me go play video games with my friend, why can't I do the work later". That's basically what Manchin did. The only chance Dems ever had was holding him hostage on BIF and pissing off his donors who cared more about a handout.

Manchin had already signaled he was willing to tank both to be rid of what he didn't like. Dem's leverage was precisely ZERO.

[Mister Mets]

I just had a image of Sotheby's or Christie's motioning for Senator Manchin to come forward and the auctioneer going through the motions of trying to get the highest bidder for him.

I don't think that is a good precedent for Senators to have their votes auctioned off to the highest bidder.

I don't think Manchin is being selfish or greedy.

But if anyone really does believe that, this means all that's standing between them and their policy preferences is someone figuring out how to provide a seventy-something West Virginian more money than he would get by voting against a spending bill that would make a lot of people richer.

Actually there is the real explanation that you missed. Both bills were explicitly designed as compliments and the negotiations were in off setting language in both bills. AOC went on record spelling this out once. There were things in BIF that were absolutely terrible for the environment, but it was done as a compromise because they were able to neutralize alot of it in the climate provisions of BBB so that the environment ended in a net positive for admissions.

Situations like that were all over the bill. This was why the two bills were tied to the hip and they were constantly presented this way every step of the way and it was made abundantly clear that they should never be passed separate of each other. This was never a binary situation. It was a pair of sister bills designed to be passed together and everyone knew that. Then Joe Manchin who didn't want to vote for one threw a fit and cowardly Democrats who were terrified of Biden's polls panicked and passed one hoping that eventually Manchin would settle on a negotiation standpoint.

I'm interested in the analysis that the passed infrastructure bill has serious shortcomings that will be improved with the passage of the Build Back Better Act, so that it would have been better to not pass the infrastructure bill at all unless Build Back Better were also passed. If Senate Democrats believed this, they could've made it one bigger bill.

My impression has been that there were more votes for the infrastructure bill, but that some Democrats who liked both bills tried to keep it as a hostage to get votes for the other bill as well.

[Tami]

I was curious if the WV Democratic Party had anything to say regarding Manchin. So far, no, but I did find this from last month:


IT’S A BIG DEAL: House Passes President Biden’s Build Back Better Act - November 19, 2021

IT’S A BIG DEAL: House Passes President Biden’s Build Back Better Act

November 19, 2021

For Immediate Release:

November 19, 2021

IT’S A BIG DEAL: House Passes President Biden’s Build Back Better Act

Less than one week after President Biden signed the Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal into law, the United States House of Representatives passed President Biden’s Build Back Better Act, moving the bill one step closer to becoming law. The Build Back Better Act will cut costs for families, create jobs, and keep the economic recovery going. In response, the West Virginia Democratic Party released the following statement.

“President Biden and Democrats took a monumental step to once again deliver for the middle class. No thanks to a single Republican in the House, the Build Back Better Act will lower costs for working families, create good-paying jobs, and cut taxes — all without adding a cent to the debt. These investments are exactly what Americans voted for when they took to the polls to elect President Biden, and the United States Senate should move quickly to get President Biden’s Build Back Better Act across the finish line.”

So, we know that they support the BBB Bill, even if Manchin doesn't.

[Tami]

Oh, and there is this as well


West Virginia Democratic Party on the Importance of the Freedom to Vote Act - October 16, 2021

Senator Manchin and Senate Democrats are making good on their promise to West Virginians and all of the American people to strengthen and protect voting rights with this updated voter protection legislation. The Freedom to Vote Act will allow for same day voter registration, protect and expand access to voting by mail, restore voting rights to formerly incarcerated people, establish automatic voter registration and prevent further voter suppression and obstacles to the ballot box.

The Freedom to Vote act will make sure all of our voices are heard and will protect and uplift the right to vote and voices of minority voters, voters with disabilities, and other voters who are disproportionately impacted by voter suppression laws.

We thank Senator Manchin for his urgency on this bill and his commitment to ensure that all people in West Virginia can easily access their ballot box.

Hmmm......maybe their thanks was a little premature.

[Jack Dracula]

At this point, we need Manchin to get visited by a bunch of ghosts on Christmas Eve and to be shown his miserable past, present, and future if he doesn't quit being a selfish, greedy ****.

IMO some of the other Dem Senators need to throw him a blanket party in the Senate cloakroom.

I was curious if the WV Democratic Party had anything to say regarding Manchin. So far, no, but I did find this from last month:


IT’S A BIG DEAL: House Passes President Biden’s Build Back Better Act - November 19, 2021



So, we know that they support the BBB Bill, even if Manchin doesn't.

Manchins WV approval poll numbers seem to rise when he seems ready to support the program and fall when he backs off.

I looked at some of the comments by the WV Democratic Party earlier today too. By some accounts, he has much more influence over party leadership than they have on him.
When he was elected governor in 2004 he received the privilege of nominating the party chairperson and pushed subordinates from his staff to the position consistently. In fact, the current Chairperson, Belinda Biafore is a Manchin nominee. Under her leadership, the party hasn't been noted for being at all critical of him throughout all of the recent drama.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1644...id-joe-manchin

It is undeniable that Manchin wields a lot of power in the West Virginia Democratic Party. This is partly because he is the only remaining Democrat in statewide office. But his control of the party began long before the state went red. Manchin became “king” after he was elected to his first term as governor in 2004.

The West Virginia Democratic Party’s social media accounts and website contain no statements about bills currently stumbling through Congress, other than the Freedom to Vote Act—a compromise bill birthed from Manchin’s opposition to the earlier For the People Act. There are posts and press releases celebrating the passage of the infrastructure-focused portion of Biden’s Build Back Better plan, but there was nothing prior to its passage.
Party Chairwoman Belinda Biafore, who lives in Manchin’s hometown of Fairmont, says there’s a reason for that. “The way to get [Manchin’s] attention is not to blast him on social media,” she said. But Biafore maintains that this does not mean the party has been silent about the goings-on in Congress. “Did the party itself publicly go out and push him? No,” she said. “But did we as a committee reach out to Joe Manchin and express our concerns and views and ideas? Yes.”

Something to note is during his last term as governor and in the years since WV has gone from a solid Blue state to solid Red. Since he'd been appointing reportedly exerting control over the Dem party leadership for nearly all of that time it seems logical to lay blame at his door for losing WV to the Republicans. The whole "Since he's the only Dem Senator in WV he must be doing something right" myth is flat-out wrong. He's a bullying control freak and an opportunist.

“People are afraid of Joe Manchin. He’s the king of the West Virginia Democratic Party, and it’s very hard to find anyone who’s willing to speak out against him,” said Shane Assadzandi, chairman of the Monongalia County Democratic Executive Committee, which is home to Morgantown and West Virginia University. “I’ve had people tell me West Virginia doesn’t have a Democratic Party. We have a Joe Manchin party.”

But even as Democrats have continued to lose power in the state, Manchin’s influence in the party has remained strong. “I would say the vast majority of people in the county and state executive committees do not want to buck the Manchin Machine,” Assadzandi said.

Depending on who you talk to, it seems Manchin has run the WV Democratic Party into the ground.

[Tami]

Goldman Sachs cuts US economic forecast after Joe Manchin rejects Build Back Better

(CNN Business)Senator Joe Manchin's opposition to the Build Back Better Act prompted Goldman Sachs to swiftly dim its US economic outlook.

The Wall Street firm told clients Sunday it no longer assumes President Joe Biden's signature legislation will get through the narrowly divided Congress, citing the West Virginia Democrat's announcement that he's a "no" on the $1.75 trillion bill.

"A failure to pass BBB has negative growth implications," Goldman Sachs economists, led by Jan Hatzius, said in the research report.

Citing the "apparent demise" of Build Back Better, Goldman Sachs now expects GDP to grow at an annualized pace of 2% in the first quarter, down from 3% previously.

The bank also trimmed its GDP forecasts for the second quarter to 3% (from 3.5% previously) and the third quarter to 2.75% (compared with 3% previously). It specifically pointed to the expiration of the child tax credit and the lack of the other new spending that had been anticipated

Goldman Sachs (GS) reiterated that upcoming inflation reports are not likely to help swing the tide back in favor of Build Back Better. The consumer price index (CPI) rose in November by 6.8% from the year earlier, the biggest 12-month jump in 39 years.

[4saken1]

If he's being greedy, shouldn't rich liberals just offer him more money for the right votes?

I'm sure that wouldn't backfire at all. Besides, can they even compete with all of the money him and Sinema are getting from rich Republican donors?

Manchin, Sinema Increasingly Receive Campaign Contributions From Republican Donors

[worstblogever]

If he's being greedy, shouldn't rich liberals just offer him more money for the right votes?

At least you're consistent about showing a lack of any kind of ethical expectations on politicians.

"My party's corrupt and greedy, why isn't your side willing to bribe people?"