DC's real problem

[kjn]

With all the stories of harassment coming out, I hope people realise it's only the tip of the iceberg, and in two different ways. The first is that only a small amount of the harassment cases gets public. But the other is that the actual sexual harassment needs a culture where women are treated as invisible and expendable. Like in this thread by Mairghread Scott.

You know the day I knew I’d never be able to make it big in comics? The day I bumped into another writer in an airport and accidentally learned he was heading to DC’s Burbank offices for a Bat-family summit.

I was writing Batgirl at the time. I wasn’t invited.

I had just started the gig and I desperately wanted to believe it was timing. I begged my editors to let me come in, for free, and at least sit in on summits that dealt with my characters. I was literally working up the street at the time.

It didn’t matter.

There was at least one more summit I know about that I wasn’t invited to. I suspect more than one given how whole storylines of mine would be thrown out to accommodate a new event my characters were in without my knowledge, inclusion, or opinion.

It got so bad I literally couldn’t afford to work there any more because my pay was so low.

I quit.

I still blame myself for that. I thought I could be good enough to break through it, even if I knew it wasn’t about merit.

I’m not doing this to blow up anybody. I just want young women out there to remember that when someone tells you “I support women,” you look around and see if there are any fucking women near him that he’s actually supporting.

Because if there aren’t, he just supports himself.

I'm sure this problem isn't limited to only DC.

And one key here is the extra labour that Scott was expected to put in, for having to write new storylines instead of the aborted ones. DC really should look into their payment practices there, because even if pay is good for a single book, if you are putting in the equivalent of one and a half book for each one, then the figures doesn't look so good anymore.

So yes, DC is sabotaging itself with its business practices.

[married guy]

That's a pretty damn disgusting workplace culture.
How is **** like that even possible nowadays???
Where's the HR or legal people to speak to in the office?

[jb681131]

So yes, DC is sabotaging itself with its business practices.

Indee, but those "practices" as you say, are there since the begining. So after 80+ years of such practives, DC is still holding strong.
I don't think the real problem in DC is how they treat women. Because they's don't awfull things to men-writters and even to acknowledge writter.
It's like with the event "Flashpoint" - only a select few were aware a reboot was coming. And when it came out, all the writters, even the top-billed ones had to adapt !
AT&T doesn't care how stuff are handled and if it could be handled better. If they see profit, it's enought, they have other fishes to fry.

[Güicho]

"Practice" ?

So who all is (was) at this "Bat-family summit" ? (this would have coincided with the Tom King run on the main title, and approaching Detective Comics #1000 (was that the summit?))
Was her Editor there? The (at the time) Robin writer? Batwoman? Batwing? Catwoman? Nightwing? Redhood? Was every Bat book writer and editor represented? Except her?
Was it just her excluded? Was her contract for just a specific short run on Batgirl? And not the direction of the entire Bat franchise?
This anecdote is meaningless without those details. ..facts.
Yet the one offered is they lived near by (and what does proximity have to do with it?) Imagine the direction of Batman decided today because of who was closest, that Editor would be laughed out of the industry.

As far as event books; Individual book creator's story-lines get left out, thrown out, changed, ignored, all the time, to follow the big "event" stories, which drive and take propriety all the time. Not everyone is invited to craft them either.
We've seen countless writers (not gender specific) complain about the same, not even let in on the direction of the big event, or how it would effect their story and character. It happens all the time! Even with the most seasoned writers who have stuck it out, have their narrative curtailed for that years big event.
It's cause acquiescent fans buy and follow events. At the expense of the regular character ongoings .
So they cater to that.

And she quit after 12 issues on Batgirl, cause she wasn't deciding the direction of the main Bat book?
How many writers go (have gone with less pay and recognition) for years gone for a decade, without deciding the direction on Batman. hoping to one day get a shot.
That's a dream!
I have to wonder, was this a - "dream job" you know something people struggle and stick out with for long, or - a "dream" they don't recognize my instant entitlement now, so I quit!?

DC's real problem

What's the "real" problem?

[Midnight_v]

I think the problem is over reaching fans. . .

Or maybe its just me. I really give 2 flips about what's happening at DC's "office" as long as the stories are great, the charcters are held to SOME kind of stable identity, and that the
books arrive on time. . . It doesn't matter at all what dc is doing outside of that to and end use and its almost to the point that companies need to have a nda and stronger penalties for them.

Someone will disagree, but to that person I say... then give up your cell phone.

[kjn]

That's a pretty damn disgusting workplace culture.
How is **** like that even possible nowadays???
Where's the HR or legal people to speak to in the office?

It is possible as long as they get away with it.

And HR and legal won't care unless they are made to care.

[kjn]

So who all is (was) at this "Bat-family summit" ? (this would have coincided with the Tom King run on the main title, and approaching Detective Comics #1000 (was that the summit?))
Was her Editor there? The (at the time) Robin writer? Batwoman? Batwing? Catwoman? Nightwing? Redhood? Was every Bat book writer and editor represented? Except her?
Was it just her excluded? Was her contract for just a specific short run on Batgirl? And not the direction of the entire Bat franchise?
This anecdote is meaningless without those details. ..facts.
Yet the one offered is they lived near by (and what does proximity have to do with it?) Imagine the direction of Batman decided today because of who was closest, that Editor would be laughed out of the industry.

As far as event books; Individual book creator's story-lines get left out, thrown out, changed, ignored, all the time, to follow the big "event" stories, which drive and take propriety all the time. Not everyone is invited to craft them either.
We've seen countless writers (not gender specific) complain about the same, not even let in on the direction of the big event, or how it would effect their story and character. It happens all the time! Even with the most seasoned writers who have stuck it out, have their narrative curtailed for that years big event.
It's cause acquiescent fans buy and follow events. At the expense of the regular character ongoings .
So they cater to that.

And she quit after 12 issues on Batgirl, cause she wasn't deciding the direction of the main Bat book?
How many writers go (have gone with less pay and recognition) for years gone for a decade, without deciding the direction on Batman. hoping to one day get a shot.
That's a dream!
I have to wonder, was this a - "dream job" you know something people struggle and stick out with for long, or - a "dream" they don't recognize my instant entitlement now, so I quit!?
What's the "real" problem?

I'm going to answer this in the assumption that you are asking in good faith. But that assumption is very thin right now.

It doesn't matter if she was hired as a small cog or to write the direction of the entire Bat-book set. DC had an all-hands meeting to discuss medium-to-long term development of the titles, and she wasn't invited, nor did she get the results of said meeting ASAP. Indeed, she wasn't even informed about it.

I doubt she'd been allowed to—or even wanted to—decide on the direction of the entire Batfamily line. But as the writer for the Batgirl title she should have been given the opportunity to hear about the plans for the Batbooks just as any other Batwriter, and to hit up Tom King or the top editors on how to best fit her plans for the Batgirl book to the rest of the plans for the Batfamily.

No-one said anything about proximity.

Of course plans are changed, and DC far too often treat the writers (and artists) as interchangable cogs. But here they went out of their way to do so, and in a way that caused her the loss of more than a bit of labour—uncompensated by DC.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This sounds like the Group Editor of the Batman books screwed up by not allowing the writer of Batgirl to be there, particularly since she offered to do it for free.

You can't beat free.

[Güicho]

I'm going to answer this ....

You didn't answer a single one of my questions you quoted.
You just inferred they don't matter.
Is it cause you don't want them to matter?

It doesn't matter if she was hired as a small cog or to write the direction of the entire Bat-book set.

Of course it matters, was she exclusive to DC at the time? On salary to be there? Or would they have to pay extra, draw a new contract for her to be there, She's well known, has a strong career contracts and deals outside DC, in other comics and Animation.
Of course what she was contracted to do (and not do) matters.


And "free" are you kidding.? Nothing is free in business like this.
If they had used any of her contributing ideas, they would be obliged and responsible to pay.

Unless she signed that "take all my ideas for free" contract.
No she didn't. And nobody would, and no company would allow it, as- if it's successful based on her ideas, and she didn't get payed they would rightfully get sued.
That's why they have contracts, to make sure that stuff doesn't happen.

...Contracts don't matter, ....she was just giving away her ideas for free! LOL

Do you guys just make stuff up, and don't look for, or try and present actual facts?
If you can't answer my questions fine, just say that!

Narrative spin: she was close by, and willing to work for free and they didn't call LOL!

Real question: What was in her contract!?

[Frontier]

This isn't the first time this has happened to a Batgirl writer. Bryan Q. Miller said on twitter he can relate.

[Güicho]

This isn't the first time this has happened to a Batgirl writer. Bryan Q. Miller said on twitter he can relate.

So based on that fact, why put a gender spin on the same now?


Is DC's "real" problem that events (often driven by the latest popular No.1 selling hot creator of the time (was that her?)) have always run roughshod over the single ongoing books and creators left out of the loop and derailed(no mater how long they've been there).
This isn't new, is it?

[Pinsir]

I already know events and sexism are cancer though!

[Godlike13]

Percy also ran for the hills after like 6 issues on Nightwing. Not sure if this is a sexist driven thing, which doesn't mean it isn't sexist, but poor and callus management. These last couple years especially the Bat line seems to be struggling to cultivate new talent on their books and have instead fallen back on in house "vets" and recurring names they are use to. Even King didn't have a graceful exit.

[phonogram12]

The number of people willing to deny that gender discrimination even exists it mind boggling.

[Frontier]

So based on that fact, why put a gender spin on it now?


Is DC's "real" problem that events (often driven by the latest popular No. selling hot creator of the time (was that her?)) have always run roughshod over the single ongoing books and creators left out of the loop and derailed(no mater how long they've been there).
This isn't new, is it?

Would she have been the only woman involved in the entire process? It may not have been intentional, but it does have some implications to that effect.